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Thread: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    There is a fourth possibility.
    Everything I am saying is within the enormous range of the IPCC's prediction,
    http://www.climatechange2013.org/ima..._SPM_FINAL.pdf

    There is nothing alarming about the low end of the IPCC predictions.
    My calculations, show, we will likely have about 1.6 °C total increase,
    if we could ever actually burn enough organic hydrocarbons to get to 560 ppm.

    I don't think that will happen, because the cost curves will cross long before then.
    When man made fuels become cheaper than organic sources, people will buy what is cheaper.
    Why limit yourself to CO2 increases being necessary for temperature to increase?
    The IPCC is talking about Additional forced change, while it at very well be NO increase above this level is necessary for Temperature increase or sea level to continue to rise.


    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.climatecentral.org/news/april-becomes-first-month-with-co2-levels-above-400-ppm-17367

    "....The first measurement in excess of 400 ppm was made on May 9, 2013. This year, the level rose above that mark a full two months earlier, and has remained above 400 ppm steadily since the beginning of April. While the milestone is largely a symbolic one, it does illustrate how far emissions have risen from their preindustrial levels of 280 ppm.

    The last time atmospheric carbon dioxide levels were This high consistently

    was anywhere from 800,000 to 15 million years ago, various studies have estimated, and
    the world was a very different places then, with Much Warmer temperatures and Extremely Higher Seas. [........]
    CO2 has been increasing at a Dramatic rate.
    Even if it didn't increase Any further, Temps might well go up the amount you postulate (or higher) when the full effects take hold.
    ie, the oceans stop acting as a sink for CO2, or reverse as they warm, and contribute to it instead of staying at 400 PPM and slowly warming.


    Last edited by mbig; 05-20-14 at 04:17 PM.
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Why limit yourself to CO2 increases being necessary for temperature to increase?
    The IPCC is talking about Additional forced change, while it at very well be NO increase above this level is necessary for Temperature increase or sea level to continue to rise.


    CO2 has been increasing at a Dramatic rate.
    Even if it didn't increase Any further, Temps might well go up the amount you postulate (or higher) when the full effects take hold.
    ie, the oceans stop acting as a sink for CO2, or reverse as they warm, and contribute to it instead of staying at 400 PPM and slowly warming.


    The problem is that this so called forcing has yet to be establish as to when it will take effect. their so called forcing that is suppose to happen compared to the observed data is so grossly wrong that it isn't funny.

    if you look at the historical 1000 year climate charts this warming phase is not outside of a norm.
    if anything this current warming trend has stalled and done so.

    also if you look at either of the links that i posted it shows that the people that are doing these charts are adding bias into their calculations compared to the raw data.
    which to me is dishonest.

    there is simply not enough co2 in the air to warrant the type of destruction that they are calling for. current co2 concentration is .5% of our total atmosphere.

    the biggest problem is that they have hijacked the term "climate change" so any natural occurance in weather is going to be blamed on climate change which is absolute non-sense.
    these people have corrupted the scientific method and all the alarmists out continue to drink the koolaid instead of actually stopping and asking if this makes sense.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ya, I know, I read the link... It's opinion survey derived from published papers. It's useless in proving anything beyond making the case that the alarmists will publish anything that supports their cause.

    If it was a meta analysis going into averages of multiple studies on the same topic, that's one thing, but this is scientifically useless.
    You may want to alert the editors of PNAS. They reject about 99% of submitted papers, so they'll be quite surprised when you let them know they let a useless one through.

    BTW, which journal do you edit?
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    The COSMOS TV series is pretty much working in Climate Change on every episode now.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, your just seeking things to lack onto. And frankly, we see much if what they predicted.
    What the .... Are you serious?!?! I'm latching onto the hypothesis matching the data... AT BEST the models are around 10-15% accurate when compared to the observed results.

    What measure do you give for the "successes"??


    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You may want to alert the editors of PNAS. They reject about 99% of submitted papers, so they'll be quite surprised when you let them know they let a useless one through.

    BTW, which journal do you edit?
    What journal do you edit?

    So clueless though, this is sad. I, sure their approach was scientific enough to warrant publishing, that's not the issue... I feel like I'm insulting having to dumb it down for you this much.... There are billions put into co2 research each year, that flow of money is relative to the alarms that can be sounded so that politicians can use that to justify their actions to remedy a non-issue.

    It's especially funny that this is the way they chose to correct for the previous fake claim that it was 97% of SCIENTISTS that accepted global warming, which it turned out was mostly opinions of non-scientists... So, now they changed the goalposts to say climate scientists.

    You clearly forget the mass examples of corruption, lies, distortions, manipulations of data,outright lies, and more that these people have engaged in over the years. Then, after giving them about decades of time to get the models right, and it turns out the models exaggerated the warming by what would be about 2 degrees per century above the observed....

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Ya know saying that "97% of climate scientists agree that we're doomed" nonsense that's so in fashion these days?
    Here's a piece that shows where it came from and tears it asunder at the same time.

    Breaking: The

    I especially like this part ...
    "Among the one-third of papers that “endorse” the “consensus,” there is near unanimity. In other words, among people who agree with the consensus, nearly all of them agree with the consensus."

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have no doubt people will buy what is cheaper. But it helps to have motivation to make something cheaper.
    Profit has always been sufficient to motivate capitalist businesses, When it becomes cheaper
    for the refineries to make their own feedstock, rather than pulling it from the ground,
    they will do so.
    External forcing through government taxation or regulation, could artificially inflate the price
    of man made fuels, thereby delaying their adoption by the vast majority who go by price.

    I also note your link draws a very different conclusion than you do. Often the interpretation of the numbers is what is important. With interpretation, why ignore those who know the most?
    No real interpretation, Some people in the alarmist camp seem to think this predicted additional
    forcing/feedback will cause the amount of warming to be worse than observational data shows
    is happening.
    Note: they did not shrink the range but changed their statement to likely and not likely.
    P.S. I am not ignoring the people who actually work in this field of Science,
    I just think they should justify the higher ranges of their predictions, which are no longer valid,
    but are still used for alarmist scare tactics.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    What the .... Are you serious?!?! I'm latching onto the hypothesis matching the data... AT BEST the models are around 10-15% accurate when compared to the observed results.
    ..
    I am serious. Actual scientist likely do more than either of us. And I've linked them for you.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Profit has always been sufficient to motivate capitalist businesses, When it becomes cheaper
    for the refineries to make their own feedstock, rather than pulling it from the ground,
    they will do so.
    External forcing through government taxation or regulation, could artificially inflate the price
    of man made fuels, thereby delaying their adoption by the vast majority who go by price.


    No real interpretation, Some people in the alarmist camp seem to think this predicted additional
    forcing/feedback will cause the amount of warming to be worse than observational data shows
    is happening.
    Note: they did not shrink the range but changed their statement to likely and not likely.
    P.S. I am not ignoring the people who actually work in this field of Science,
    I just think they should justify the higher ranges of their predictions, which are no longer valid,
    but are still used for alarmist scare tactics.
    Profit has not always brought out the best. Cheaper at a high price has been more dominate. So, a new technology that might be expensive for a long while versus a cheap technology will almost always win the profit battle.

    Scientists do have papers and publications detailing their work. Most of those are not free often hard to produce here. But doing a search you can find that they exist. Just can't copy and paste them for free.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    What journal do you edit?

    So clueless though, this is sad. I, sure their approach was scientific enough to warrant publishing, that's not the issue... I feel like I'm insulting having to dumb it down for you this much.... There are billions put into co2 research each year, that flow of money is relative to the alarms that can be sounded so that politicians can use that to justify their actions to remedy a non-issue.

    It's especially funny that this is the way they chose to correct for the previous fake claim that it was 97% of SCIENTISTS that accepted global warming, which it turned out was mostly opinions of non-scientists... So, now they changed the goalposts to say climate scientists.

    You clearly forget the mass examples of corruption, lies, distortions, manipulations of data,outright lies, and more that these people have engaged in over the years. Then, after giving them about decades of time to get the models right, and it turns out the models exaggerated the warming by what would be about 2 degrees per century above the observed....
    Blah blah blah.

    I show you a study in an eminently respectable journal, you say it's not science. Then I point out that it is, and you ping pong to a conspiracy theory, then make up something about 97%, and then rant about manipulation of data and lies.

    I don't really understand how this massive conspiracy has mysteriously left a bunch of temperature data you believe disproved the models. If the conspiracy is as extensive as you say, and the data manipulation was done, dontcha think they would have manipulated and lied themselves into a position where you couldn't question the data?

    It reminds me of the objection to the ACA. 'Its horrible government insurance, and besides that, the website is unusable!'
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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