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Thread: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    There usually is never final proof.

    But we certainly come to a consensus on many issues, otherwise, you can't do science.

    You have to accept that a drug that is designed to act upon a target receptor will do so, and IS doing so when it elicits the response you predict. You have to accept that when you let go of the brick above your foot, you will have it descend in a straight line because gravity exists, and your foot has no natural brick repellant or attractant properties.

    What is never done is looking at a potential set of results and then discarding them because you don't agree with the options you have in dealing with said results.
    The hard to accept part is that the very same "models" that are said to demand immediate action do not play out as advertised. Show me the shoreline that moved inland 2 miles as predicted by the models. The standard answer seems to be that if we wait until that occurs then it will be too late to fix it. Sine we do not know what adding a given amount of CO2 will do then we cannot know what not adding that same amount of CO2 will do.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    There usually is never final proof. But we certainly come to a consensus on many issues, otherwise, you can't do science.
    And how is this consensus arrived at? Is it 51-49, 60-40? 90-10? Is there ever any coercion on scientists to accept evidence that perhaps might not be complete. Do Grants pay a roll in their findings? Or threats?

    You have to accept that a drug that is designed to act upon a target receptor will do so, and IS doing so when it elicits the response you predict.
    We have accepted drugs in the past, like thalidomide, which have proven harmful. In fact we have seen scientists telling us cigarettes did no harm. Just as scientists have to be skeptical of their findings so has the public learned to be skeptical of scientists.
    You have to accept that when you let go of the brick above your foot, you will have it descend in a straight line because gravity exists, and your foot has no natural brick repellant or attractant properties
    People have long known about falling objects but it took a Newton to explain the why. And even then, as in Einstein's case, it took years for his theories to be generally accepted after further demonstrations were complete. This 'climate change' seems to have taken hold with whatever science there is being promoted by people like Al Gore, or Hollywood celebrities and with any 'contrairans' being called 'deniers' or their positions being threatened or removed.

    This rush to judgement on climate change hardly seems scientific at all and appears to be more about power and vast sums of money more than anything else.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Personally, I think the good old USA is just peeing into the wind unless one can get China, India, Russia and other countries to come on board. All that we are doing is making services and good cost a whole lot more in this country while not accomplishing a dog gone thing globally.
    That's because Americans are more likely to throw money at a problem, real or perceived, than the Russians, Chinese, or most anyone else.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And all that still doesn't add up to all the cow farts.
    Take a pot and put it under the water faucet and run water into it, and set up a hose and a pump that removes water from the pot just as quickly as the faucet pours the water into the pot.

    That is equilibrium.

    Now start adding a teaspoon of water to the pot every few seconds. The pot will begin to fill. It will fill slowly, but it will fill because the pump removing the water cannot increase its pumping capacity.

    Do you see? It does not matter that the teaspoon is adding far less water than the faucet that is pouring continuously - the pump can't handle the amount added by the teaspoons, and the teaspoons of water being constantly added is throwing the system out of equilibrium, and eventually the pot will fill and overflow.

    So it goes with the climate - it does not matter that there are greater sources of CO2 and other greenhouse gases - what matters is that without our worldwide civilization's added output of CO2, the system was generally in balance except for the occasional great volcanic eruption or the sun putting out much more or much less energy. Even though the planet's natural processes can absorb that greater amount of naturally-produced CO2, it is not able to handle the added amount of CO2 that our civilization is emitting...and that, sir, is why the CO2 level is rising to a point where it hasn't been in all human history.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And how is this consensus arrived at? Is it 51-49, 60-40? 90-10? Is there ever any coercion on scientists to accept evidence that perhaps might not be complete. Do Grants pay a roll in their findings? Or threats?

    We have accepted drugs in the past, like thalidomide, which have proven harmful. In fact we have seen scientists telling us cigarettes did no harm. Just as scientists have to be skeptical of their findings so has the public learned to be skeptical of scientists. People have long known about falling objects but it took a Newton to explain the why. And even then, as in Einstein's case, it took years for his theories to be generally accepted after further demonstrations were complete. This 'climate change' seems to have taken hold with whatever science there is being promoted by people like Al Gore, or Hollywood celebrities and with any 'contrairans' being called 'deniers' or their positions being threatened or removed.

    This rush to judgement on climate change hardly seems scientific at all and appears to be more about power and vast sums of money more than anything else.
    There is no definition of consensus. But I'll tell you that the loose understanding is definitely there for AGW. Its not being questioned in the scientific literature anymore - like gravity, or the concept of dna encoding genetic information, or the germ theory of disease.
    And grants play little role in directing scientific conclusions - they play a significant role in funding appropriate research though. And someone trying to fund research not supported by current science (i.e. denier stuff) will be refused because the granting bodies will regard their idea as against mainstream science. It works for every other discipline - why do you think climate science is the exception?

    Scientifically, there was a question about thalidomide. If you understood the history of the drug, you'll understand that the FDA refused to approved it because the science didnt support it. No one in the US 'accepted' it. Scientists have said cigarettes caused no harm. It was the ones who were paid by the tobacco companies. Note that the climate deniers tend to get lots of funding from oil and coal companies. See the trend, dude?

    The 'rush to judgement' on climate change is not a rush - its taken half a century - and the power and vast sums of money are quite parallel to the tobacco issue - the science is very clear, and entrenched interests are trying to muddy the waters as much as possible. And they rely on suckers like you to propagate their message.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's because Americans are more likely to throw money at a problem, real or perceived, than the Russians, Chinese, or most anyone else.
    That is the U.S.'s main problem, instead at getting to the root of any problem that arises, they just throw money at it. If the amount of money thrown at the problem didn't solve it, next year the good old USA doubles the amount and so on and so on.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Take a pot and put it under the water faucet and run water into it, and set up a hose and a pump that removes water from the pot just as quickly as the faucet pours the water into the pot.

    That is equilibrium.

    Now start adding a teaspoon of water to the pot every few seconds. The pot will begin to fill. It will fill slowly, but it will fill because the pump removing the water cannot increase its pumping capacity.

    Do you see? It does not matter that the teaspoon is adding far less water than the faucet that is pouring continuously - the pump can't handle the amount added by the teaspoons, and the teaspoons of water being constantly added is throwing the system out of equilibrium, and eventually the pot will fill and overflow.

    So it goes with the climate - it does not matter that there are greater sources of CO2 and other greenhouse gases - what matters is that without our worldwide civilization's added output of CO2, the system was generally in balance except for the occasional great volcanic eruption or the sun putting out much more or much less energy. Even though the planet's natural processes can absorb that greater amount of naturally-produced CO2, it is not able to handle the added amount of CO2 that our civilization is emitting...and that, sir, is why the CO2 level is rising to a point where it hasn't been in all human history.
    Science hasn't even determined that CO2 causes global warming. Might want to prove that first.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, it really doesn't. The so called "science" on this is now propaganda.
    No j, it isn't. And that's the problem you guys have. Why those less extreme see your side as anti science.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    addressed by people that believe in AGW and there is not a consenses by any stretch of the imagination.

    The Latest Meteorologist Survey Destroys The Global Warming Climate 'Consensus' - Forbes

    not to mention the nipcc is gaining ground in scientific circles.

    if the consensus was so complete and not at issues then you wouldn't have climate scientists pulling their names and work from the report due to the IPCC corrupting the data.

    UN Scientists Who Have Turned on the UN IPCC & Man-Made Climate Fears — A Climate Depot Flashback Report | Climate Depot

    the only consensus is imaginary to alarmists to try and shut down debate.
    Forbes is deceptive. Some reading:



    Authors of a new study of meteorologists' views of global warming set the record straight when Forbes op-ed writer James Taylor, consistent with his long history of denial and obfuscation on climate change, selectively reports the results of a poll of members of the American Meteorological Society. Taylor claims the study shows weak support for the human contribution to global warming. In fact, as authors of the study point out below, the survey found that more than 90 percent of those respondents who are more engaged in research and publishing on climate science acknowledge the human contribution to warming.




    Neil Stenhouse, et al., "Meteorologists’ views about global warming: A survey of American Meteorological Society professional members" (Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, preliminary accepted version) (article Abstract)

    Taylor distorts poll of meteorologists on climate change to reach opposite conclusion of study authors | Climate Science Watch


    your other claim is also rather limited to a single source. Doesn't seem to be shared by anything close to objective.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    You are free to disagree, and that is how Science is done,by disagreement, not by consensus.
    The reality is there is no real consensus among Scientist, "an extremely broad understanding",
    might be a better statement, but does not carry the same weight.
    The way the sampling was done, would put myself in the warming camp, which I am not.
    No, it is not done by exaggerating disagreement. And consensus does give us a clear idea what the science does and doesn't support.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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