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Thread: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I only rely on numbers not opinions. Most of my 30 + years of R&D have been in Physics and optics, which is why I was skeptical when I first heard about "forcing".
    CO2 is very difficult to pump optically, the most common path is a vibrational transition from nitrogen.
    There is a known and fairly accepted direct response to increasing CO2, that according to the IPCC works out to 1.2 C for each doubling.
    So 140 to 280 ppm 1.2 C
    280 to 560 ppm 1.2 C
    560 to 1120 ppm 1.2 C
    Notice the curve is not linear, and the response per unit increase is not as high.
    We might be able to hit the first doubling, but the second would be almost impossible,
    the cost curves for man made fuels will cross long before then.
    Numbers are no more reliable than opinion. They have to be interpreted. Few, if any, here have the expertise to correct you. That's why we rely on those who do. It's arrogance for any novice to think they know more than experts, as I've tried to show.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Thanks for the third grade science review.
    Maybe you'll learn about rates of change in the next grade's textbook.
    Don't mention it. Anytime. You obviously skipped elementary school. Or the liberals have changed it so much they don't teach climate change history anymore.
    Liberalism—dividing up the EARNED wealth of honest, hard working and ingenious AMERICANS and giving it to the leeches who would rather waste their worthless lives living off the government teat.
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    Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    What truth?
    If the temperature is going to get there it batter change slope soon.
    And when it does, you'll point to some other made up theory that will be more consistent for your political beliefs.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by HogWash View Post
    Don't mention it. Anytime. You obviously skipped elementary school. Or the liberals have changed it so much they don't teach climate change history anymore.
    Rate of change. You're gonna love the concept, if you can wrap your head around it.

    Here's a taste:

    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Numbers are no more reliable than opinion. They have to be interpreted. Few, if any, here have the expertise to correct you. That's why we rely on those who do. It's arrogance for any novice to think they know more than experts, as I've tried to show.
    No need to interpret the numbers, when they can be graphed.
    1880_3.jpg
    The Yellow is the known response for CO2,
    Pink and light blue are the limits of the equation for a doubling of CO2 by 2080.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    And when it does, you'll point to some other made up theory that will be more consistent for your political beliefs.
    If it does, we will have a new area of Physics, no political beliefs in Physics.
    If it does not the whole AGW theory is out on it's ear.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    A tree farm has more trees than a forest, and is pruned regularly. The great planes growing cereal crops that are harvested absorb more than the grasses that were there.
    Wrong, and wrong. Why? Because in an old-growth forest, the plant mass isn't just the trees - it's EVERYTHING in that forest: the moss, the ferns, the vines, the bushes, and the weeds...all of which is removed in a tree farm. And FYI the total number of tree farms on the planet don't even comprise a fraction of the amount of old-growth forests we've cut down over the centuries.

    And cereal crops absorb more than the grasses? Really? And you can back that up with, what? Guy, I grew up in farmland, and even in the biggest farms, maybe half of the ground is covered with plants. Why? There's these things called "rows" - you may have heard of them. In between each row of plants, there's bare dirt...dirt that in a meadow or wild grassland would be filled with...plant life. What's more, grasslands don't get plowed up to be bare dirt for months at a time. And how much CO2 is that bare dirt absorbing? None.

    Okay, guy? Your points...aren't what you thought they were.

    The hardiness zones have moved north about 100 miles, improving the growth capability of vast millions of acres.
    And the tundra is melting and releasing methane (which is 25X worse than CO2 when it comes to global warming). And vast tracts of land (including much of the US RIGHT NOW) is in the throes of extreme or exceptional drought.

    [/QUOTE]Some amount of the CO2 increase is unquestionably man's doing, we just do not know how much.

    Wrong. We DO know how much. We know the natural sources of CO2, what can cause the CO2 level to spike, and what can absorb it...but we also know how much we're adding every week of every year of every decade.

    Thankfully there are limits on how much CO2 we can rearrange, many say we have already passed peak oil.
    It's not just regular oil wells. Fracking - which has enabled America to become the world's largest producer of oil - is also used to extract natural gas...and a surprising amount of that is leaked to the atmosphere.

    The reality is that oil, gas, and coal, will get harder and more expensive to extract.
    The problem is, the point at which fossil fuels will become economically impractical is several decades in the future...but we need action on the climate NOW. Climate change is here NOW. The ice is melting NOW. The sea level is rising NOW. The ocean's acidification is increasing NOW.

    Man made carbon fuels will get less expensive, as the technology improves, and alternative energy sources increase.
    Again, that's decades in the future. Humankind needs action NOW.

    The curves will cross, and people will on average always choose the least expensive option.
    Again, that's decades in the future. Humankind needs action on climate change NOW.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    If it does, we will have a new area of Physics, no political beliefs in Physics.
    If it does not the whole AGW theory is out on it's ear.
    I think you intentionally are forgetting the third possibility.

    That you are totally wrong.

    If I was a betting man, id bet against the armchair scientist with fixed political beliefs all day long.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    No need to interpret the numbers, when they can be graphed.
    1880_3.jpg
    The Yellow is the known response for CO2,
    Pink and light blue are the limits of the equation for a doubling of CO2 by 2080.
    That's a mistake. Numbers always need interpretation, they don't speak for themselves. Any good statistician, any good researcher knows this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I think you intentionally are forgetting the third possibility.

    That you are totally wrong.

    If I was a betting man, id bet against the armchair scientist with fixed political beliefs all day long.
    You do not comprehend well do you? My statement was inclusive of the temperature going up.
    I go wth the data.

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