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Thread: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Sure your point makes sense if you only read the first few paragraphs of that article. Did you also read the part where it states the average thickness in 1980 was 3.8 meters and in recent years the average thickness was 1.9 meters?

    The issue is not total coverage, it is ice thickness. If temperatures drop below a certain level ice coverage will increase, however the duration of those temperatures is what determines ice thickness. In recent years you have comparable coverage, however, it melts sooner and more thoroughly due to the decreased thickness of the ice. This poses a problem, mainly because the thinner the ice, the quicker it will melt and therefor causes a landslide effect, so-to-speak.

    The article also states that while recent years there have been colder temperatures, one or two years of increase in coverage does not change the trend of multiple years of decrease.

    What has been steadily happening is a loss of ice coverage for many years followed by a few years of cold temperatures then a return to steady loss of ice coverage. So your explanation of 1.8 - 4.5 degrees colder has no bearing, it was only for a year or so and does not change the steady trend that has been happening.


    From the article (at the bottom)

    "Most of the Arctic Ocean used to be covered by multiyear ice, or ice that has survived at least two summers and is typically 10 to 13 feet (3 to 4 meters) thick. This older ice has declined at an even faster rate than younger ice and is now largely relegated to a strip along the northern coast of Greenland. The rest of the Arctic Ocean is dominated by first year ice, or ice that formed over the previous winter and is only 3 to 7 feet (1 to 2 meters) thick."
    But the overall volume is going up as well:

    Measurements from ESA’s CryoSat satellite show that the volume of Arctic sea ice has significantly increased this past autumn.

    The volume of ice measured this autumn is about 50% higher compared to last year. In October 2013, CryoSat measured about 9000 cubic km of sea ice – a notable increase compared to 6000 cubic km in October 2012.

    Over the last few decades, satellites have shown a downward trend in the area of Arctic Ocean covered by ice. However, the actual volume of sea ice has proven difficult to determine because it moves around and so its thickness can change.

    CryoSat was designed to measure sea-ice thickness across the entire Arctic Ocean, and has allowed scientists, for the first time, to monitor the overall change in volume accurately.

    About 90% of the increase is due to growth of multiyear ice – which survives through more than one summer without melting – with only 10% growth of first year ice. Thick, multiyear ice indicates healthy Arctic sea-ice cover.

    CryoSat shows Arctic sea ice volume up 50% from last year | Watts Up With That?
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But the overall volume is going up as well:
    So what you are saying is that 1 year of increase negates 30 years of steady decrease?

    That's why they base these on averages, there have been years in the past where it increased as well. However, the overall trend since 1979 has been a steady decrease in coverage.
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But the overall volume is going up as well:
    From your own article:

    "While this increase in ice volume is welcome news, it does not indicate a reversal in the long-term trend."
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    From your own article:

    "While this increase in ice volume is welcome news, it does not indicate a reversal in the long-term trend."
    Yes, I saw that....It should include "yet"....
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    So what you are saying is that 1 year of increase negates 30 years of steady decrease?

    That's why they base these on averages, there have been years in the past where it increased as well. However, the overall trend since 1979 has been a steady decrease in coverage.
    Funny how those who believe in 'climate change' can easily stop believing in 'climate change', even while it's happening.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Funny how those who believe in 'climate change' can easily stop believing in 'climate change', even while it's happening.
    What does that even mean? Who stopped believing in climate change? Certainly not me.
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    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As they are pressuring China: Activists Crack China’s Wall of Denial About Air Pollution

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/wo...anted=all&_r=0

    and any search would show a lot of this. So, isn't this just dodging the issue on your sides part (which is what I was getting at)? There's not much that can be done.
    They aren't doing **** in China, come on.
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    ,
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They aren't doing **** in China, come on.
    I just showed that they are. You are simply ignoring it. Do you want nation pity? Trying to make excuses? Again, be specific.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    What does that even mean? Who stopped believing in climate change? Certainly not me.
    Didn't you use the quote, "While this increase in ice volume is welcome news, it does not indicate a reversal in the long-term trend." Ergo, this change is clearly taking place but you are going on past averages to support a very questionable theory. The past should not figure in to the present when it comes to 'change'.

    There has been no global warming for over 17 years now and that, to some, is welcome news. To others its a disappointment.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    ,

    I just showed that they are. You are simply ignoring it. Do you want nation pity? Trying to make excuses? Again, be specific.
    I don't need to make excuses, the stakes are too damn high to be at the kind of disadvantage the extremists want. It's too costly to let China get away cheap while we lose $billions and spend $billions more on compliance. Get them onboard, then come talk to me. We can maintain the status quo, and that's all.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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