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Thread: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Its even cheaper if you just ration electricity, fuel, and population.
    Are you being sarcastic? I honestly can't tell.

    Most people would not settle for forced moderation, we need superior solutions, people will not tolerate anything less. We need electric cars that are just as good or better as petrol cars that derive energy from clean energy sources just as cheap as coal or ng. I can't imagine western populations being forced by the government to limit population...

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    [QUOTE=j-mac;1063249753]And sadly this is what it is all about...Aside from the highly technical discussions that talk of 'excited molecules' and 'molecular attachment', what we have in the end is government controlling business, and massive redistribution through hidden taxation schemes that would, should land these scum bags in jail...So far all they are succeeding at is destroying this country.[/QUOTE

    I have come to the conclusion that the U.S. can't do it alone. Unless you get every other country in the world to come on board, trying to do something about climate change yourself is useless, it is worse than peeing in the wind. If you have 180 smokers, 3 cigar and the rest cigarette with the cigar smokers being China, India and the U.S., in a room, you can't clear the room of smoke if only one of the cigar smokers quit smoking. All you have done, accomplished is to deny yourself the pleasure of a good cigar.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    The current thinking is that the climate is changing too fast right now, however life is pretty tenacious so we'll have to see.

    How a Few Species Are Hacking Climate Change

    We can work to slow the emission of carbon into the air decreasing the potential future effects of climate change right now. However we have to switch to alternative forms of energy for this to be feasible. It's all possible without undue burden, we just have to want to do it and put in the effort.

    Climate Panel Stunner: Avoiding Climate Catastrophe Is Super Cheap -- But Only If We Act Now | ThinkProgress
    The results you desire will occur on their own without any cost or Government input.
    Organic oil will continue to increase in cost, as extraction becomes more difficult.
    Man made fuels will continue to decrease in price, as capacity and technology improve.
    At some point, the curves will cross, and people will buy the man made fuels,
    because they are cheaper and better.
    Organic oil will be reserved for making the more complex hydrocarbon used like plastics.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post

    You have a far too high opinion of human intelligence.

    We both know that there are many people on this forum who are, for whatever reason, incapable of understanding very basic concepts in physics.
    You have far too low an opinon of people who disagree with you. What some alarmists style as "basic concepts of physics" includes a lot of false assumptions.

    Where climate science is concerned even intelligent people who have never looked at the data or ever seriously examined the methods used to analyse it are in no position to be critical of the opinions regarding the science of those who have.

    Plenty of skeptics are critical of climate science based on faulty knowledge of the science. But the vast majority of people who go along with the alarmist position are in exactly the same position with regard to their knowledge of the science.

    I defy anyone to look at the models used to produce predictions of future climate and then tell us that they are likely to be accurate. They are, in fact, extremely crude.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Pretty much all the scientists and institutions that are credible do. So once again your only position can be that they are "virtually all are corrupt around the world"... fat chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only if you ignore the experts, the evidence, and the science.
    For a theory or supposed evidence of a theory to be valid, it has to stand up to attempts to falisify it. That is science - science is supposed to be an open, honest, "let the chips fall where they may", pursuit of the truth.

    It is only "skeptical scientists" that are actually practicing science, b/c science is about skepticism - if all efforts to falsify something prove that the theory is correct, then it is accurate to say the theory is scientifically valid - it is true. Skeptics don't have a problem with something that proves to be valid - skeptics have a problem with those things that are discredited or disproven, but are still held up to the public and lay people as being true.

    Al Gore made millions on "An Incovenient Truth", and running around the globe ginning up the faithful using Michael Mann's Hockey Stick. Well, since Mann's Hockey Stick was contrary to everything known about the earth's temperature record, it stands to reason that it needed to be examined with attempts to falsify it. Did Mann offer up his data and methodology for examination and testing?? No, of course not...

    As the ClimateGate emails showed, he even went so far as to say in reference to Ross Mckitrick, when Mckitirick was asking for his data, "... why should I give it to him, he just wants to disprove it"!!! They ignored FOIA requests, deleted emails and data, destroyed evidence, and conspired to confuse, frustrate, and derail the scientific process.

    When Mckitrick and others finally got hold of the data - it was shown to be completely tricked up, and completely useless as science; but that information never made it to the general public. Instead, Mann, Jones, et al, got their buddies to rubber stamp it as valid - and that is what was widely trumpeted as the truth.

    The problem you have there is - it was falsified. End of story, end of validity, end of it being able to be called valid science. 1 million scientists can come along and say "it's all good"; but all that need happen for it to be thrown out is for 1 scientist to prove it false.

    And so it goes with all this nonsense. AGW/CC is extremely dogmatic with a harshly enforced orthodoxy. Step outside that orthodoxy, and you will be labeled a heretic, cut off from funding, prevented from publishing, denied advancement, etc. That is not science - that is corruption; and that is what the so-called scientists who are pushing this abomination are engaged in.

    As has been demonstrated, 114 of 117 climate models are now out of confidence level ranges; we haven't had any warming in 17 years; there is nothing unusual about the earths weather patterns; on and on... "climate happens". Always has, always will.

    The bottom line is, any true scientist is a skeptic - b/c that is the nature of science. If something survives attempts to falsify it, it should be accepted; but if something fails falsification attempts - it has to be thrown out, and it is then incumbant upon the scientist that offered up the study or theory to find another way.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Are you being sarcastic? I honestly can't tell.

    Most people would not settle for forced moderation, we need superior solutions, people will not tolerate anything less. We need electric cars that are just as good or better as petrol cars that derive energy from clean energy sources just as cheap as coal or ng. I can't imagine western populations being forced by the government to limit population...
    If you want to limit CO/2, you need to forcefully reduce electricity consumption, fuel consumption, and population growth( which drives increase usage of the former ).

    Either you tax the crap out of what you trying to limit, or you regulate it into non-existence.

    If limiting CO/2 is your stance, then pick your poison; the end game is the same.

    You will never replace coal/oil/natural gas(80.65 quadrillion Btu), on an energy production efficiency scale, without force. You need to artificially reduce that total via rationing or population reductions just to give all renewable energy production a chance at keeping up with existing demand.
    Last edited by Samhain; 05-08-14 at 11:55 AM.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    If you want to limit CO/2, you need to forcefully reduce electricity consumption, fuel consumption, and population growth( which drives increase usage of the former ).

    Either you tax the crap out of what you trying to limit, or you regulate it into non-existence.

    If limiting CO/2 is your stance, then pick your poison; the end game is the same.

    You will never replace coal/oil/natural gas(80.65 quadrillion Btu), on an energy production efficiency scale, without force. You need to artificially reduce that total via rationing or population reductions just to give all renewable energy production a chance at keeping up with existing demand.
    They already do limit electricity in 3rd world countries, especially most of Africa - that's working out well, huh??

    The environmentalists are actively promoting and engaged in genocide - yet they present themselves as "humanitarians". They are amazingly arrogant, obtuse, ignorant, and dangerous - and those are the best things that can be said of them.

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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Yes, asking good questions is key to science. The rub here is asking good questions. Accusing climate scientists of silly notions on a whim with no evidence or understanding of the issue is not asking good questions, it is demonstrating ignorance.
    You do realize I'm an amateur geologist, and at one point in my life I wanted to be a meteorologist and have read too much on this topic or pseudoscience to even validate any of claim of AGW...

    What I have found is that a lot of these so called AGW nuts are nothing more than human haters, and the so called "scientists" that perpetuate this AGW nonsense are for the most part human haters - former members of green peace.

    The scary truth is that people will believe whatever jibes in their brain or whatever ideas pander to their politics..... Truth is a non-factor when it comes to climate change and AGW.

    For once in my life I would like these climate scientists (who are so damn arrogant that they believe they know everything for the most part) to stop looking at climate change and the lie of AGW and start to look at the issue from a neutral or non-partisan perspective instead of their political lens.

    Presently climate change/AGW are nothing more than political issues - and these so called scientists are towing a party line and NOT doing their jobs as scientists.

    A lot of these so called climate scientists should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating a lie just so they can continue to be funded by governments. So as far as I'm concerned these so called scientists aren't scientists at all - they're propagandists.

  9. #259
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    If you want to limit CO/2, you need to forcefully reduce electricity consumption, fuel consumption, and population growth( which drives increase usage of the former ).

    Either you tax the crap out of what you trying to limit, or you regulate it into non-existence.

    If limiting CO/2 is your stance, then pick your poison; the end game is the same.

    You will never replace coal/oil/natural gas(80.65 quadrillion Btu), on an energy production efficiency scale, without force. You need to artificially reduce that total via rationing or population reductions just to give all renewable energy production a chance at keeping up with existing demand.
    I disagree, but mostly because "never" is a very long time.
    I don't think CO2 is much of an issue, but we do need to utilize our alternates to organic
    hydrocarbon fuels.
    When the end user cost of using the man made fuels, is less than the organic flavors,
    people will choose them, it really is that simple.
    It will likely happen quicker without Government influence,
    because Government picking winners and losers, disrupts natural market trends.

  10. #260
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    Re: Climate change is here and action needed now, new White House report says[W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You do realize I'm an amateur geologist, and at one point in my life I wanted to be a meteorologist and have read too much on this topic or pseudoscience to even validate any of claim of AGW...

    What I have found is that a lot of these so called AGW nuts are nothing more than human haters, and the so called "scientists" that perpetuate this AGW nonsense are for the most part human haters - former members of green peace.

    The scary truth is that people will believe whatever jibes in their brain or whatever ideas pander to their politics..... Truth is a non-factor when it comes to climate change and AGW.

    For once in my life I would like these climate scientists (who are so damn arrogant that they believe they know everything for the most part) to stop looking at climate change and the lie of AGW and start to look at the issue from a neutral or non-partisan perspective instead of their political lens.

    Presently climate change/AGW are nothing more than political issues - and these so called scientists are towing a party line and NOT doing their jobs as scientists.

    A lot of these so called climate scientists should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating a lie just so they can continue to be funded by governments. So as far as I'm concerned these so called scientists aren't scientists at all - they're propagandists.
    I don't think I would paint all the researchers with that brush.
    Many Assistant Professors, look for grants anywhere they can.
    They teach graduate classes at university, on how to read the RFP,
    and write a proposal that will improve your odds of winning.
    Part of the prep includes looking at the Vita's of the reviewers,
    and writing what you think they want to see.
    If they win the grant, they do the research, and present the results
    in the best light, that will lead to additional grants.
    If the reviewer is part of the IPCC, or is active in Green Peace,
    I think they consider that when writing up the results.

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