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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    It's funny. I'm a Christian (I don't practice as much as I should) but I see signs and billboards preaching ideas that I don't agree with personally and at times contradict my Christian beliefs, however those groups have every right to display their message - that is what makes the United States so great - First Amendment rights, yet atheists get bent when Christians advertise their ideas?

    In my opinion it appears Atheists have a war against Christianity and potentially Judaism, however it seems Islam is immune from their disgust and hate - and that, within itself raises a lot of questions as to the motives of the Atheists - because the way I see it they're really not "non believers" they just hate CERTAIN religions. Now why - I can only speculate but I can only assume by their actions they have a vendetta against Jews and Christians.

    Now of course I cannot claim every Atheist adheres to such a radical ideal but I do believe there is a majority that does.
    I share your opinion. My husband & I neither one of us believes, but we completely respect those who do, and see most atheists as being very very intolerant of religious folks, to the degree that they show unabashed hatred towards them. It's ugly.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    I think we all can pretty much agree that the nation was founded and structured under the tenets of Freemasonry.

    Freemasons have long proclaimed that no important undertakings should begin without the blessing of deity.

    Granted, no specific deity was endorsed, but prayer was encouraged nonetheless.

    Therefore, in my opinion, there is precedent and tradition to favor prayer in meetings of importance in American society.

    Don't **** with the Masons.

    So mote it be.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I understand what you're saying and I agree with that. I've been in certain situations where others bow their head in prayer (saying grace and whatnot) and my husband, kids or I bow our heads - sort of - but don't pray. We have also stood for certain things, such as prayer at weddings and even Eagle Scout ceremonies. We do it, but are silent. But it still doesn't offend me or harm me in any way.

    I actually respect people who hold religious beliefs, no matter what they are - Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, etc. I think those beliefs are good ones and I've seen people on the hairy edge of disaster turn their lives around when they find God.
    I have no problem with people reaching out to God. It's when the reaching out turns into shoveling Him down our throats that I begin to object.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I share your opinion. My husband & I neither one of us believes, but we completely respect those who do, and see most atheists as being very very intolerant of religious folks, to the degree that they show unabashed hatred towards them. It's ugly.
    My understanding is that it's the proselytizing that annoys the non believers.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    So you are advocating only the prayers of the majority of the group to begin the meeting, but are against more people praying in their own faith before the meeting? Yes, I have an issue with that. I would be against it if you were in the minority and don't want to hear some Hindu prayer (or whatever, assuming you are not Hindu) and not hear your own prayer said. It is called respect and if you don't respect the religions of others before a civic meeting, then why should they respect yours.
    If I'm in India I would respect the customs and wishes of the majority there. If I am attending a meeting in a predominantly Jewish community I would respect their customs. If I am in Provo Utah I would respect a prayer by Mormons. But you don't respect the majority of Christians who want to have a prayer, so why do you accuse me of being disrespectful?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    You are looking for a reason to think I'm against you, your God, or your prayers. I'm not. Schedule the prayers so that they end at the meeting beginning and all if fine with me. I was making a fricking suggestion to compromise. You want it your way and view anything else as an infringement of your right to pray.
    That is not a compromise. In the OP it was stated that the prayer began before the meeting, that is the normal custom, probably the same for most religions. Like I said, if the prayer bothers you don't enter the meeting until after the prayer, or you could just ignore the prayer. Sitting in your seat in silence would not disrupt what others are choosing to do, why isn't that good enough for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    My beliefs--Freedom of religion and freedom from religion--just don't impose on my time.
    The time in question belongs to others as well. Don't impose your demands on them.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    If I'm in India I would respect the customs and wishes of the majority there. If I am attending a meeting in a predominantly Jewish community I would respect their customs. If I am in Provo Utah I would respect a prayer by Mormons. But you don't respect the majority of Christians who want to have a prayer, so why do you accuse me of being disrespectful?



    That is not a compromise. In the OP it was stated that the prayer began before the meeting, that is the normal custom, probably the same for most religions. Like I said, if the prayer bothers you don't enter the meeting until after the prayer, or you could just ignore the prayer. Sitting in your seat in silence would not disrupt what others are choosing to do, why isn't that good enough for you?



    The time in question belongs to others as well. Don't impose your demands on them.
    Just another circular argument. You want your prayer to take place at the "traditional" time and you keep leaving out the main point. This is a government meeting. The old expression: "government of, by and for the people" doesn't mean the majority of people--it means all the people. If the solution to accommodating everyone means that there has to be two hours worth of various prayers before some meeting, then I would rather not have any prayers.

    Meetings have schedules. If there are going to be prayers, then put them on the schedule. Of course, since I'm not aware of reserved seating at any government meeting, that would mean that the prayer participants are going to be in front or perhaps take up the whole room.

    Again, I'm not against any religion and when in the appropriate forum, I either stand or sit quietly out of respect for others. At a government meeting--my government as well as yours, I expect neutrality across all beliefs. You want government to support the majority wherever that may be. I want government to accommodate all religions and if even 1 person wants to pray before your government meeting, then in the context of the OP, then they should have just as much right as you do to have their prayer aired. I hope the meeting takes 5 hours before business begins. If that is the case, then more people will agree with me.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    The odd part - the part I don't get - is why are these Atheists opposed to prayer? especially when they're not forced to partake in prayer.

    Although they might not believe in God, they should believe in freedom and embrace freedom - even if a group is partaking in a harmless action such as prayer.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The odd part - the part I don't get - is why are these Atheists opposed to prayer? especially when they're not forced to partake in prayer.

    Although they might not believe in God, they should believe in freedom and embrace freedom - even if a group is partaking in a harmless action such as prayer.
    Is your question only to atheists or to others as well?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Is your question only to atheists or to others as well?
    I'm open to any opinion on the matter - not just Atheists.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Just another circular argument. You want your prayer to take place at the "traditional" time and you keep leaving out the main point. This is a government meeting. The old expression: "government of, by and for the people" doesn't mean the majority of people--it means all the people. If the solution to accommodating everyone means that there has to be two hours worth of various prayers before some meeting, then I would rather not have any prayers.
    Red herring - show me where any place has instituted two hours worth of prayers. Generally a invocation prayer lasts less than 20 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Meetings have schedules. If there are going to be prayers, then put them on the schedule. Of course, since I'm not aware of reserved seating at any government meeting, that would mean that the prayer participants are going to be in front or perhaps take up the whole room.
    20 seconds or less of anything has failed to put a meeting off schedule. More time is spent clearing throats at meetings than any prayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Again, I'm not against any religion and when in the appropriate forum, I either stand or sit quietly out of respect for others. At a government meeting--my government as well as yours, I expect neutrality across all beliefs. You want government to support the majority wherever that may be. I want government to accommodate all religions and if even 1 person wants to pray before your government meeting, then in the context of the OP, then they should have just as much right as you do to have their prayer aired. I hope the meeting takes 5 hours before business begins. If that is the case, then more people will agree with me.
    Most people will not agree with you because you are being petty.

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