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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Implications? You mean like people who hate on anything religious because its religious and attempt to suppress it at every opportunity constantly whining?
    I mean that you want to impose your religious rituals on people who either don't subscribe to the way you pray...or those who don't subscribe to religion.

    The people who can't cope or problem solve or function in a secular world are the whiners.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I mean that you want to impose your religious rituals on people who either don't subscribe to the way you pray...or those who don't subscribe to religion.

    The people who can't cope or problem solve or function in a secular world are the whiners.
    (In this instance) Noone is trying to force anything on you. THEY are praying among themselves. For their benefit. It has nothing to do with you.
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post

    What was the harm they experienced?
    I'm not getting into that with you. You know what harm is. There's no need for me to explain it.

    Along with other angry and concerned parents the issue has long since been addressed with the school principal, the superintendent and the nutcase fire and brimstone preacher.

    What I'm trying to get to is that freedom of speech, expression and religion harm no one. Being offended is not harming you. Hearing a prayer from another religion is not harming anyone. I think it would do people a whole lot more good if they were exposed more often to things with which they disagree.
    How then does not having public prayer in the context of the OP harm anyone?

    If I agreed with everything I heard in Christian prayers I'd still be a Christian. If I agree with everything I hear in Muslim prayers I'd be a Muslim. The prayers don't personally offend me. Public prayers that preach and denigrate, damn and condemn have no place in publicly funded meetings, events, venues. Therein lies the rub.

    What do you suggest should happen when a religionist disrespects others during a public prayer by tramping into damning alcoholics to hell, rebuking homosexuals and accusing Muslims of being godless heathens?

    I can see the political maneuvering to get "the right" religious leader on the dais to provide the prayer before a local council meeting that will address the location and/or operation of an abortion clinic. If the religious leader strays even a little bit into the issue of abortion the prayer becomes political. Do you stop the religious leader mid prayer and tell him to sit down and be quiet? Or do you wait until he/she is finished and admonish them never to do it again. No harm, no foul. It won't be viewed as no harm, no foul by the people who oppose the references made in the prayer.

    Political prayer posturing in public meetings is and should be a very real concern in everything from zoning to funding school vouchers.










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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    This isnt a matter of religious extremists. So I am going to exclude that.

    To your other point that noone attends them, yes they absolutely do. Especially in smaller towns. And if those people who are attending choose to say a prayer how does that infringe on the rights of anyone? How does it actually negatively effect anyone? Truth is it doesn't. These people are the people of that town mostly coming to have their voice heard on an issue and/or offer ideas on how to fix/address certain issues. Prayer does have a mental effect on those who believe it. It may just be in their heads, noone really knows. But it may help them personally. And with these meetings individual contributions matter. These individuals matter.
    If I understand you correctly religion doesn't matter, it is prayer that makes the difference. In that regard you'd be fine with predominantly Muslim prayers prior to most of your town hall meetings?

    I could see an issue if they forced everyone to pray with them. Or if they refused to hear anyone who didnt pray. Soemthing along those lines, yes that would be wrong. But them choosing to is not wrong.
    Your experience is completely different than mine. I have served on councils, committees, task forces, commissions and even a school board in small towns and large cities and at state level as well and unless their are hot items on the agenda relatively few people show up. I provided a few examples of what might/probably will happen as a result of the SC decision. You conveniently ignored those scenarios.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    I mean that you want to impose your religious rituals on people who either don't subscribe to the way you pray...or those who don't subscribe to religion.

    The people who can't cope or problem solve or function in a secular world are the whiners.
    Seems that you are whining.
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Seems that you are whining.
    yeah, I learned how from you.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    It is only the minority demanding things of the majority when someone else is the minority. When you become the minority, then "they" are taking over.

    I remember vividly the story of Antelope, Oregon back in the 1980's. Quite a mess: Rajneeshpuram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    I am no grammar nazi, but I am compelled to point out that "noone" is not a word.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    If I understand you correctly religion doesn't matter, it is prayer that makes the difference. In that regard you'd be fine with predominantly Muslim prayers prior to most of your town hall meetings?
    I've already answered that. If there was a group of people who wanted to say a muslim prayer before, after or during I wouldn't care less. I doubt most people would other than the religious intolerant.

    Your experience is completely different than mine. I have served on councils, committees, task forces, commissions and even a school board in small towns and large cities and at state level as well and unless their are hot items on the agenda relatively few people show up. I provided a few examples of what might/probably will happen as a result of the SC decision. You conveniently ignored those scenarios.
    No I didn't. I have attended town hall meetings as well. And generally there is a turn out.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    You don't have the capacity to grasp the implications related to this decision by the S.C.
    Coming from someone who has thus far lacked the capacity to actually reply to comments made to them? That ad hominem personal insult is rich. The last resort of those who can't convince anyone that what "offends" them should be the law? Ad hominem personal attacks. You're really "winning" the debate now!

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