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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

  1. #191
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If me and the majority of the people in that meeting wanted to hear mozart before the town hall meeting, yes it will be played.

    And that doesn't answer my question. You said people shouldn't be allowed to pray out loud because you don't like it. How is that any different from anything else that people don't want to hear? Don't duck the question.
    We seem to be hearing is a lot of whoopee and yahoo for prayer prior to local council and committee meetings by people who never attend said meetings.

    If it isn't on the agenda it doesn't happen. If it isn't on the agenda then the room and the time must be scheduled by someone. If the room and the time is scheduled by the government entity that is conducting the meeting then it must be on the agenda.

    Nothing comes without unintended consequences.

    Here's a scenario that I can easily envision happening:

    Beyond contentious topics being on the agenda the public rarely, if ever attends local government meetings and damn near never attends committee meetings. For the most part, without a reporter of some sort attending, local governments and committees could conduct meetings while smeared nekkid in bear grease and the public would be none the wiser. As far as prayer goes I'd venture to say that damn near 95% of the people reading this have no clue as to the history of prayer before local and committee meetings that personally affect them. In truth does prayer really matter in majority of these meetings one way or the other? Hell, no. Nobody goes anyway. No one is really that interested in local government unless it has to do with taxes or the building of a local mosque.

    Seating will become an issue in some local government meetings when prayers are held prior to a meeting with hot agenda items. Seating could well become political as those not wishing to hear the prayer wait outside the meeting room until the prayer is completed. Prayer listeners go in first and get the best seats. When the meeting agenda contains a hot topic the meeting will likely be SRO. Those who don't want to hear the prayer get the worst seats or no seats at all. This will become an issue unless people are permitted to enter before the prayer and reserve their seats. At contentious meetings even seat saving may become nasty.

    If the hot topic on the agenda happens to be one that attracts religious extremists block seating will become a political issue. Count on that.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

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  2. #192
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Repetition Strengthens and Confirms. You, sir, are anti-separations of church and state. You are in support of religious rituals in government/public meetings.
    Except I'm pro-separation of church and state, but I am anti the brain rape you want to commit on the clause. Know why? Church and State: Still separate two hundred and twenty nine years on with no end in sight!

    This matter is not really about your personal sense of offense and guess what? It is not about me personally either. Or what you peronsally think of me or if you think I'm really religious or not. So I'd quit trying to make this about me if were you; for obvious reasons.

  3. #193
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Sigh. Separation of church and state is not even in the Constitution.
    Henrin...long time no see. Can we keep that way in the future.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    Except I'm pro-separation of church and state, but I am anti the brain rape you want to commit on the clause. Know why? Church and State: Still separate two hundred and twenty nine years on with no end in sight!

    This matter is not really about your personal sense of offense and guess what? It is not about me personally either. Or what you peronsally think of me or if you think I'm really religious or not. So I'd quit trying to make this about me if were you; for obvious reasons.
    You don't have the capacity to grasp the implications related to this decision by the S.C.

  5. #195
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's a meeting of the government.
    No. Its a meeting of the citizens of and for that town
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  6. #196
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    You are comparing entertainment to TALKING TO GOD. That is a false equivalency. While you see prayer as a benign activity, it's a religious ritual. Your religion offends me. Your neighbor's religion offends me. Nobody should have the right to use a public business forum to impose their religion on me when I'm at a public/government environment seeking solutions or raising concerns about my community, or problem solving pubic issues...and I and everybody else becomes a captured audience to your praying. I don't care why you want to pray, just do it where others who don't subscribe to your beliefs aren't infringe on.
    Thats bull **** and you know it. Someone praying is not them imposing their religion on you. It is simply them praying. People have every right to pray in any forum they wish out loud or in private. The only problem you have is you don't want to hear it, which is the case in many public settings. Religious people have the right to say what they want to who they want at whatever venue they want the same as you. And that includes prayer.

    Holding people captive in an government meeting and dumping religion on them is NOT separation of church and state. Yes, captive. These venues are NOT for religious rituals, but anyone wanted to confront their local governments over public issues....are forced to listen to a religious ritual. NO, I'm NOT ****ing leaving. I want the ritual to leave. It has no place in public meetings that are important for addressing community, state, or higher issues.
    I dont think anyone is saying you should leave or not attend. You think that because you dont want to hear something someone shouldn't be allowed to say it. That is just ignorant. I am glad the supreme court decided to stay out of town hall meeting procedure.

    You don't have a freedom from religion. People are allowed to openly practice their religion in front of you and any other oppressive people. They can't force you to follow their religion but they don't have to hide it from you. Any opportunity they feel the need to pray out loud they absolutely should.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  7. #197
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    We seem to be hearing is a lot of whoopee and yahoo for prayer prior to local council and committee meetings by people who never attend said meetings.

    If it isn't on the agenda it doesn't happen. If it isn't on the agenda then the room and the time must be scheduled by someone. If the room and the time is scheduled by the government entity that is conducting the meeting then it must be on the agenda.

    Nothing comes without unintended consequences.

    Here's a scenario that I can easily envision happening:

    Beyond contentious topics being on the agenda the public rarely, if ever attends local government meetings and damn near never attends committee meetings. For the most part, without a reporter of some sort attending, local governments and committees could conduct meetings while smeared nekkid in bear grease and the public would be none the wiser. As far as prayer goes I'd venture to say that damn near 95% of the people reading this have no clue as to the history of prayer before local and committee meetings that personally affect them. In truth does prayer really matter in majority of these meetings one way or the other? Hell, no. Nobody goes anyway. No one is really that interested in local government unless it has to do with taxes or the building of a local mosque.

    Seating will become an issue in some local government meetings when prayers are held prior to a meeting with hot agenda items. Seating could well become political as those not wishing to hear the prayer wait outside the meeting room until the prayer is completed. Prayer listeners go in first and get the best seats. When the meeting agenda contains a hot topic the meeting will likely be SRO. Those who don't want to hear the prayer get the worst seats or no seats at all. This will become an issue unless people are permitted to enter before the prayer and reserve their seats. At contentious meetings even seat saving may become nasty.

    If the hot topic on the agenda happens to be one that attracts religious extremists block seating will become a political issue. Count on that.
    This isnt a matter of religious extremists. So I am going to exclude that.

    To your other point that noone attends them, yes they absolutely do. Especially in smaller towns. And if those people who are attending choose to say a prayer how does that infringe on the rights of anyone? How does it actually negatively effect anyone? Truth is it doesn't. These people are the people of that town mostly coming to have their voice heard on an issue and/or offer ideas on how to fix/address certain issues. Prayer does have a mental effect on those who believe it. It may just be in their heads, noone really knows. But it may help them personally. And with these meetings individual contributions matter. These individuals matter.

    I could see an issue if they forced everyone to pray with them. Or if they refused to hear anyone who didnt pray. Soemthing along those lines, yes that would be wrong. But them choosing to is not wrong.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  8. #198
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Thats bull **** and you know it. Someone praying is not them imposing their religion on you. It is simply them praying. People have every right to pray in any forum they wish out loud or in private. The only problem you have is you don't want to hear it, which is the case in many public settings. Religious people have the right to say what they want to who they want at whatever venue they want the same as you. And that includes prayer.

    I dont think anyone is saying you should leave or not attend. You think that because you dont want to hear something someone shouldn't be allowed to say it. That is just ignorant. I am glad the supreme court decided to stay out of town hall meeting procedure.

    You don't have a freedom from religion. People are allowed to openly practice their religion in front of you and any other oppressive people. They can't force you to follow their religion but they don't have to hide it from you. Any opportunity they feel the need to pray out loud they absolutely should.
    Of course I have the right to freedom from religion. And NO you can't pray out loud ANYPLACE YOU WANT! That's absurd and ignorant belief on your part. Hell, you can't even pray out loud during a movie...at a theater. They'll kick your ass out.

    When a government / public meeting convene, that is not a venue to engage in religious rituals. It is a distraction from public business. Further more, it's on the taxpayer's tab.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    You don't have the capacity to grasp the implications related to this decision by the S.C.
    Implications? You mean like people who hate on anything religious because its religious and attempt to suppress it at every opportunity constantly whining?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  10. #200
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Of course I have the right to freedom from religion. And NO you can't pray out loud ANYPLACE YOU WANT! That's absurd and ignorant belief on your part. Hell, you can't even pray out loud during a movie...at a theater. They'll kick your ass out.

    When a government / public meeting convene, that is not a venue to engage in religious rituals. It is a distraction from public business. Further more, it's on the taxpayer's tab.
    You do not have the right from religion. You have the right to choose your own religion but not to force others to hide their religion is your presence.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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