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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

  1. #131
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Sure. Exposure to prayer can cause me seizures. Therefore, I give churches a wide berth.
    If someone were to say that about liberal (or conservative for that matter) political speech, would that be a reasonable justification to prohibit it in public?
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The decision by SCOTUS to allow prayers at public government meetings is seen by at least SOME politicians as allowing them to promote only one religious belief


    Christians are so 'persecuted' in this country.

    Add this little bit of bigotry to statements by the Chief Justice of the Alabama State Supreme Court, Roy Moore, and the rational person has to wonder if Margaret Atwood was being prescient when she wrote The Handmaid's Tale or maybe it was Robert Heinlein when he wrote a tale of American theocracy all the way back in 1940 - Revolt in 2100 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    We all know there is a large segment of this country that insists we are a "Christian Nation." And, they will stop at nothing to impose that "fact" on the rest of us.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Look, your trying to hard to cling to Mr. Hail Satan. It's okay to let that go. That was metaphorical.

    My entire point was and is the following:
    I already knew what your stance was from reading the thread before. I and another poster directly answered you, and you apparently don't like the answers. I have no doubt you would show up at a meeting (assuming you had an actual reason to be there) and proclaim that you were there on business, not religious reasons! And now it looks like as before, you will be told no problem. We will get down to the business of the meeting as soon as it starts. I notice that you and other posters like to make selective use of the language in this matter. You keep referring to religion in the meeting or "at" the meeting. The issue is about what goes on before the meeting. I guess you are free to pretend you will be forced to talk religion and prayer during the meeting. That is not the case. I guess that is what you are going to "cling" to.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    If someone were to say that about liberal (or conservative for that matter) political speech, would that be a reasonable justification to prohibit it in public?
    The city council holding a prayer session is not the same as giving people a space to speak or for that matter bow East and pray. It's a gvt sanctioned prayer. This is where the slippery slope comes in.

    Already, we see some councils insisting that the only acceptable prayer is a Christian one. I'd be much more comfortable if the verdict from SCOTUS stated that a moment of silence shall be observed so that those who wish could bow their heads and pray quietly.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    I already knew what your stance was from reading the thread before. I and another poster directly answered you, and you apparently don't like the answers. I have no doubt you would show up at a meeting (assuming you had an actual reason to be there) and proclaim that you were there on business, not religious reasons! And now it looks like as before, you will be told no problem. We will get down to the business of the meeting as soon as it starts. I notice that you and other posters like to make selective use of the language in this matter. You keep referring to religion in the meeting or "at" the meeting. The issue is about what goes on before the meeting. I guess you are free to pretend you will be forced to talk religion and prayer during the meeting. That is not the case. I guess that is what you are going to "cling" to.
    What I cling to is simple: If a government meeting has been called into business - NO PRAYER! If people want to assemble prior to the government meeting for pray - GO FOR IT on their own time. Not during a meeting that's is designed to address public business and problems. Is that just too much to ask?

    A person can wake up and begin praying and pray till they fall asleep...and then dream about praying. But just don't make me listen to their prayers. That's it. Is that too much to ask?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Huzzah!

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Slippery slope. I prefer a secular society. Hence, any public prayer in a public meeting harms me. You want to pray, keep it in the church or your own home--hell pray in the ****ing park for all I care, but don't force the whole town to bear your bull****.
    Noone forces anyone to participate. They are doing something with like minded individuals. They arent forcing you to do anything, they aren't forcing their beliefs on you, yet you are sitting here trying to force your will on them. It is very simple. You want to participate, then participate, if not then dont. This hurts noone.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Noone forces anyone to participate. They are doing something with like minded individuals. They arent forcing you to do anything, they aren't forcing their beliefs on you, yet you are sitting here trying to force your will on them. It is very simple. You want to participate, then participate, if not then dont. This hurts noone.
    They pray out loud.

    Then that forces me to hear it.

  9. #139
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Fantastic.

    My stance is:

    Wanna pray? Go to church and pray among and with one's religious peers. Wanna pray? Fire away, inside one's mind anytime or anyplace. If prayers don't work when they are done so in silences...then maybe people are praying to the wrong deity. Maybe a deity doesn't want to answer a prayer or think that it fits the big plan.
    Maybe maybe maybe. We dont know. They believe it will help. They might be right they might be wrong. In the end it hurts no one. I could see the problem if they forced everyone to pray. But they aren't doing that. They are at most asking those who dont to be respectful for 2 or 3 minutes. There is nothing wrong with that regardless of beliefs.

    Have public business that needs to be remedied? Go to a meeting with the agenda to resolve a public problem. Public debate helps resolve issues, not prayer.
    Again that is your belief. There are a lot of people who believe that prayer helps. In the end it is a matter of beliefs.

    In other words, what is the end game by saying a prayer at a public meeting? Fellowship maybe?
    I dont think that is the case. I am not a big prayer guy but I have heard them. Generally they are saying something like " lord please give us strength" type of prayers. And saying those words really seems to help a lot of people, makes them stay positive. Others it doesn't. But as I said before it hurts noone, and helps some. It is worth allowing.

    Do those who subscribe to minority religions get their form of prayers invoked in a public meeting?
    If there is a large group of them I am sure it would.

    Realistically if you are having a town hall meeting with 100 people. 75 of those people would like to say a short prayer. 20 dont care either way. And 5 people who oppose it just because they hate religion and jump on any opportunity to attack them. What should happen? 95% of people support it in their meeting or dont care, and 5% only care to be assholes.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    They pray out loud.

    Then that forces me to hear it.
    You speak out loud. That forces those around you to hear it. So should noone be allowed to say something if there is anyone around who doesn't want to hear it?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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