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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

  1. #121
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    Well I must not be! Because I can't make sense of what you are saying. You are comparing the words of "love" that one would have for a spouse, to a prayer before a public meeting? Likewise your reply to MrVicchio would seem to indicate that you think Christianity has its "own designs on society" and they are to take over the country. A corporate controlled, religious oligarchy. See I don't think that it is really a matter of me not being 'quick on the uptake' as much as a matter of a really muddy message. Delivered sloppily. Coming from someone throwing around the word meaningless. Just saying.
    Like I said; You are not too quick on the uptake.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Yes, obviously you are confused.



    See post #90. Wait, let me share it with you.



    I replied








    ************************************************** **********************************

    The above post was preceded by #85, which I posted:




    In other words:

    If a local, county, state, or federal government meeting has been called into business and a prayer is invoked, - That's an infringement on the rights of those who don't want TO HAVE RELIGIOUS PRAYER FORCED ON THEM!

    IN A PUBIC GOVERNMENT MEETING - when prayer is forced on people who go for public business and problems to be addressed - and who doesn't want go to a public meeting for a religious ceremony performed. - That's the harm.

    What's next? Start having all public agenda meeting used to solve public problems be held in churches as opposed to a government building or town halls?

    "Well now!" you say. "If you don't like prayers at public meetings, then don't go to the meeting!'

    So then I will have to reply: BUT I HAVE PUBIC BUSINESS TO ADDRESS - NOT RELIGION.
    So what do I have to do...pray that you'll stop praying at public meetings and whoever prays the hardest and gets their way...wins?
    Good lord, a few honest questions. Does this wall of text above mean something? What? Because by the end of it, I'm not even sure you are sure who you are speaking to or what about. Particularly when you get into that part about what I'd say and you'd say and whatever else someone would say at the end. So what was that all supposed to mean? That Satanist now don't view prayer as dogmatic and practice meditation instead? That your hypothetical was not hyper fictional and based upon a misunderstanding? That most people probably would not have a problem with the practice alongside traditional prayer at a public meeting? Particularly if they had to attend the meeting or have a reason to be there? That the sound of this silent mediation would be a problem? What about those straight forward questions was it that was so intimidating? So much so that you launched into this, I can only call it a diatribe above?
    Last edited by Filthy McNasty; 05-06-14 at 04:18 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    When there could be a long line of different prayers to accommodate a large group of people, then I think it is excessive. Why can't the prayer be done at the end? Will God be so bored by the proceedings that he won't listen if the prayers are done at the end?

    In this situation was there a long line of people asking for different prayers? Why do you feel it necessary to impose the will of the minority on the majority? Your comment about what "God" would be bored with tells it all. You are offended that there are people who have either a faith in something, or just don't mind the tradition of having an invocation before a proceeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Oh, and I don't really care about your traditions one way or the other, since you asked. I was seeking a workable compromise, why are you so inflexible?
    Here is a compromise: Don't enter the meeting until after the prayer.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    The NYT is a left leaning paper so that is not quite unusual that they would side with the liberal judges. of course the SCOTUS isn't suppose to be political it is suppose to be a neutral party and uphold the constitution. which is what the judges did.



    UMM you just said that religous views are BS or do i need to repost it for you? i am not making any pretense so i have no clue about what you are talking about.




    then you are only looking at you want to see.
    Simple. There's a time and a place for everything. A city council meeting is neither time nor place for prayer. After all, a large number of people are actually offended by it.

    Why must prayer be imposed on those who want no part of it?

    Church is for prayer. Home is for prayer. City Council meetings are for discussing community related matters. It's a shame that religious people can't keep the prayer out of the public square.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    <snip>
    In other words:

    If a local, county, state, or federal government meeting has been called into business and a prayer is invoked, - That's an infringement on the rights of those who don't want TO HAVE RELIGIOUS PRAYER FORCED ON THEM!

    IN A PUBIC GOVERNMENT MEETING - when prayer is forced on people who go for public business and problems to be addressed - and who doesn't want go to a public meeting for a religious ceremony performed. - That's the harm.

    What's next? Start having all public agenda meeting used to solve public problems be held in churches as opposed to a government building or town halls?

    "Well now!" you say. "If you don't like prayers at public meetings, then don't go to the meeting!'

    So then I will have to reply: BUT I HAVE PUBIC BUSINESS TO ADDRESS - NOT RELIGION.
    So what do I have to do...pray that you'll stop praying at public meetings and whoever prays the hardest and gets their way...wins?
    The decision by SCOTUS to allow prayers at public government meetings is seen by at least SOME politicians as allowing them to promote only one religious belief
    Roanoke County supervisor ready to strike prayer policy after Supreme Court ruling - Roanoke Times: Roanoke County News

    Roanoke County’s Board of Supervisors may be headed toward another discussion of prayer following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling handed down Monday. The board dealt with the matter in 2012, eventually passing a nonsectarian prayer policy that Supervisor Al Bedrosian is ready to strike from the books.
    “The freedom of religion doesn’t mean that every religion has to be heard,” said Bedrosian, who added that he is concerned about groups such as Wiccans and Satanists. “If we allow everything … where do you draw the line?”

    The supervisor campaigned on the idea of eliminating the policy, and the ruling has breathed new life into his idea for a policy that could lead to the exclusion of non-Christian groups from the invocation.

    When asked if he would allow representatives from non-Christian faiths and non-faiths, including Jews, Muslims, atheists and others, the Hollins District supervisor said he likely would not.

    If a non-Christian wished to pray during a meeting under his idea for the prayer policy, Bedrosian said, he or she would be able to do so during the allotted time for citizen comment. “I think America, pretty much from founding fathers on, I think we have to say more or less that we’re a Christian nation with Christian ideology,” Bedrosian said. “If we’re a Christian nation, then I would say that we need to move toward our Christian heritage.”
    Christians are so 'persecuted' in this country.

    Add this little bit of bigotry to statements by the Chief Justice of the Alabama State Supreme Court, Roy Moore, and the rational person has to wonder if Margaret Atwood was being prescient when she wrote The Handmaid's Tale or maybe it was Robert Heinlein when he wrote a tale of American theocracy all the way back in 1940 - Revolt in 2100 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Islam and Buddhism don't have First Amendment protection, chief justice says

    "Everybody, to include the United States Supreme Court, has been deceived as to one little word in the first amendment called 'religion,'" he said. "They can't define it."

    Moore insisted that freedom of religion applies only the God of the Bible, and therefore the protections of the establishment clause do not extend to other religions, such as Islam and Buddhism.

    "They don't want to do that, because that acknowledges the creator God," he said. "Buddha didn't create us. Muhammad didn't create us. It's the God of the Holy Scriptures."

    According to Moore, the government and the Supreme Court should define religion as James Madison and George Mason did – "The duties we owe to the Creator and the manner of discharging it."

    "They didn't bring a Koran on the pilgrim ship, Mayflower," he said. "Let's get real. Let's learn our history. Let's stop playing games."
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  6. #126
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    Good lord, a few honest questions. Does this wall of text above mean something? What? Because by the end of it, I'm not even sure you are sure who you are speaking to or what about. Particularly when you get into that part about what I'd say and you'd say and whatever else someone would say at the end. So what was that all supposed to mean? That Satanist now don't view prayer as dogmatic and practice meditation instead? That your hypothetical was not hyper fictional and based upon a misunderstanding? That most people probably would not have a problem with the practice alongside traditional prayer at a public meeting? Particularly if they had to attend the meeting or have a reason to be there? That the sound of this silent mediation would be a problem? What about those straight forward questions was it that was so intimidating? So much so that you launched into this, I can only call it a diatribe above?
    Look, your trying to hard to cling to Mr. Hail Satan. It's okay to let that go. That was metaphorical.

    My entire point was and is the following:


    If a local, county, state, or federal government meeting has been called into business and a prayer is invoked, - That's an infringement on the rights of those who don't want TO HAVE RELIGIOUS PRAYER FORCED ON THEM!

    IN A PUBIC GOVERNMENT MEETING - when prayer is forced on people who go for public business and problems to be addressed - and who doesn't want go to a public meeting for a religious ceremony performed. - That's the harm.

    What's next? Start having all public agenda meeting used to solve public problems be held in churches as opposed to a government building or town halls?

    "Well now!" you say. "If you don't like prayers at public meetings, then don't go to the meeting!'

    So then I will have to reply: BUT I HAVE PUBIC BUSINESS TO ADDRESS - NOT RELIGION. So what do I have to do...pray that you'll stop praying at public meetings and whoever prays the hardest and gets their way...wins?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    How embarrassing, adults who are supposed to be in charge bowing their heads to talk to the invisible man.
    You worship Obama. Where's the difference?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, he seems to be suggesting that an individual use their own definition for harm.

    "If YOU have been harmed by a prayer, or think you could be, then tell me how."

    Basically, he's asking that if you personally think you've been harmed (so however you personally define harm), or think you could be, he would like you to explain how that is.

    His definition of harm doesn't really matter much when asking you if YOU think you have or could be harmed...because nothing forces you to use his definition, so there's no reason for you to think you've been harmed or not harmed based on HIS definition.

    Basically, he seems to be asking people to do what calamity did....explain whether or not they personally think prayer at a public meeting harms them, and how.

    Calamity explained by explaining his apparent definition of harm....IE, an action that runs counter to his particular desire for how the world should be.
    Sure. Exposure to prayer can cause me seizures. Therefore, I give churches a wide berth.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You worship Obama. Where's the difference?
    Living messiah versus a dead one?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The decision by SCOTUS to allow prayers at public government meetings is seen by at least SOME politicians as allowing them to promote only one religious belief


    Christians are so 'persecuted' in this country.

    Add this little bit of bigotry to statements by the Chief Justice of the Alabama State Supreme Court, Roy Moore, and the rational person has to wonder if Margaret Atwood was being prescient when she wrote The Handmaid's Tale or maybe it was Robert Heinlein when he wrote a tale of American theocracy all the way back in 1940 - Revolt in 2100 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Gosh...Christians are so persecuted. But strangely, they act as if they don't do it to those who are non-Christians - which in my opinion is pretty dang frequent - and probably since the beginning of the Christian religion. I guess it's pay-back by the current day Christians for the Crucifixion of Christ.

    Yeah...I watched that video yesterday. And really...that's how it is with so many. That's Bigotry on steroid, if you ask me.

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