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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

  1. #111
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    How embarrassing, adults who are supposed to be in charge bowing their heads to talk to the invisible man.
    Happened since the beginning of the country. Heck, most of the best civilizations in history acknowledged their Gods in functions of the State.

    Embarrassing, childish? No.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I somehow doubt you would agree to have several prayers of different religions before a meeting and only "approve" of Christian prayers being forced on everyone to hear. So please, don't try and pretend this is a 1st amendment issue for you. This is a "We want to cram our CHRISTIAN prayers down people's throats" concern.
    I think that would be a decent thing. If a significant portion of the community were of multiple faiths, inclusion of the big hitters would be good.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    When there is a thread about banning things, then we can discuss that then. For now, this is a thread about what they are permitting and my suggestion that if they have to do a prayer, then do it at the end so those who do not wish to participate can leave when the official proceedings end. This is especially true if 100 religions show up for each meeting and they all want to do a prayer before official proceedings begin. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable compromise. What's yours?
    My compromise? None. If they don't like it they don't have to attend the meeting; they can take their complaints to the ballot box and vote in a new council. If the will of the people is to change the situation, then let that happen by democratic process.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    You're not too quick on the uptake.
    Well I must not be! Because I can't make sense of what you are saying. You are comparing the words of "love" that one would have for a spouse, to a prayer before a public meeting? Likewise your reply to MrVicchio would seem to indicate that you think Christianity has its "own designs on society" and they are to take over the country. A corporate controlled, religious oligarchy. See I don't think that it is really a matter of me not being 'quick on the uptake' as much as a matter of a really muddy message. Delivered sloppily. Coming from someone throwing around the word meaningless. Just saying.

  5. #115
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    My compromise? None. If they don't like it they don't have to attend the meeting; they can take their complaints to the ballot box and vote in a new council. If the will of the people is to change the situation, then let that happen by democratic process.
    I guess you are mixing up common courtesy with politics. Oh well, that's your opinion.

  6. #116
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    Satanic Priest don't lead prayers, they lead meditations and view prayer as following dogma. MAYBE THEY SHOULD START!

    Good try though. But as Kreton said and you ignored, if a Satanic Priest wants to arrive before a meeting to lead a meditation and all the state laws are followed?

    It is hard to imagine anyone would really mind. REALLY? That's odd considering the number of folks freaking out by gay marriages

    I'd require Mr. Hail Satan to actually attend the meeting though. In order to discourage grand standers and types there to disrupt the meeting with their "meditation/prayer" who have no interest in the meeting itself. WHY? Isn't Mr. Hail Satan protected under the same Constitution?

    As to the rest of your questions, you know it is 2014 right? What's religious oppression have to do with the year? It never stopped it from happening before.

    Or do you really think none of this has come up before or none of your questions have ever been addressed? Uhmmmm, ever hear of Separation of Church and State? Yeah, it's come up many times before.

    Or you just need posters at an internet message board to answer them for you?
    Yes, obviously you are confused.



    See post #90. Wait, let me share it with you.

    Quote by LUDIN view post

    it isn't during the meeting it is BEFORE the meeting.

    sorry but the constitution doesn't limit you on where and when you can pray. what it does say is that government can't tell you when and where to pray.
    Ah...So it's a prayer meeting before the public meeting? In other words, before the meeting is called into business the prayer is said?
    I replied

    Quote by RM

    Hmmmmm,
    THEN I QUOTED: A small New York town’s practice of opening its government meetings with a prayer does not violate the constitutional separation of church and state, a sharply divided Supreme Court ruled Monday, in a decision that both sides said could signal a major shift in the role of religion in the public square.

    Supreme Court OKs prayer before public meetings - Washington Times
    Quote by RM

    I think the meeting has been called into business...then the prayer is said.

    ************************************************** **********************************

    The above post was preceded by #85, which I posted:


    My stance is:
    [/U]
    Wanna pray? Go to church and pray among and with one's religious peers. Wanna pray? Fire away, inside one's mind anytime or anyplace. If prayers don't work when they are done so in silences...then maybe people are praying to the wrong deity. Maybe a deity doesn't want to answer a prayer or think that it fits the big plan.

    Have public business that needs to be remedied? Go to a meeting with the agenda to resolve a public problem. Public debate helps resolve issues, not prayer.

    In other words, what is the end game by saying a prayer at a public meeting? Fellowship maybe? What about those who don't subscribe to, or is affiliated with religion? Do those who subscribe to minority religions get their form of prayers invoked in a public meeting? Like say should the meeting include those who want to spread a prayer blanket, get on their knees, face the west, and bow in prayer?
    In other words:

    If a local, county, state, or federal government meeting has been called into business and a prayer is invoked, - That's an infringement on the rights of those who don't want TO HAVE RELIGIOUS PRAYER FORCED ON THEM!

    IN A PUBIC GOVERNMENT MEETING - when prayer is forced on people who go for public business and problems to be addressed - and who doesn't want go to a public meeting for a religious ceremony performed. - That's the harm.

    What's next? Start having all public agenda meeting used to solve public problems be held in churches as opposed to a government building or town halls?

    "Well now!" you say. "If you don't like prayers at public meetings, then don't go to the meeting!'

    So then I will have to reply: BUT I HAVE PUBIC BUSINESS TO ADDRESS - NOT RELIGION.
    So what do I have to do...pray that you'll stop praying at public meetings and whoever prays the hardest and gets their way...wins?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I guess you are mixing up common courtesy with politics. Oh well, that's your opinion.

    I find it discourteous when a minority of people wish to dictate which traditions must be silenced. Why are you offended by a prayer?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Tell you what. If a Christian doesn't mind listening to this from start to finish:



    or hearing an abbreviated, a cappela version sung at the beginning of a council meeting, then I might be willing to entertain his or her privilege to pray at a council meeting. If not, then he or she advocates treating Islam differently than Christianity in the eyes of the law. To do that is to destroy any credibility one might have on this issue.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  9. #119
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    "Harm"? You continue to use a word that you will not define. Define harm or your question is meaningless. Do you fear the answer? If you cannot define the term I'll accept a dictionary definition IF you provide one.
    It's a simple question. I can't define the harm you suffer from someone saying a prayer because it's not something I've experienced. If you're not able.or willing to answer, then I guess that's an answer in and if itself.

    If you're not familiar the dictionary definition of the word, then by all means look it up.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  10. #120
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    I find it discourteous when a minority of people wish to dictate which traditions must be silenced. Why are you offended by a prayer?
    When there could be a long line of different prayers to accommodate a large group of people, then I think it is excessive. Why can't the prayer be done at the end? Will God be so bored by the proceedings that he won't listen if the prayers are done at the end?

    Oh, and I don't really care about your traditions one way or the other, since you asked. I was seeking a workable compromise, why are you so inflexible?

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