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Thread: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

  1. #101
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The NYT article showed how the Left leaning justices ruled much more evenly on free speech issues than the Right Leaning ones. That suggest they judges on the Right are biased, by definition.
    The NYT is a left leaning paper so that is not quite unusual that they would side with the liberal judges. of course the SCOTUS isn't suppose to be political it is suppose to be a neutral party and uphold the constitution. which is what the judges did.

    How can I be biased when I have no qualms with people practicing their religion in church or in private? It's the public displays of religion which I spurn. BTW: Did not your Christ warn his followers against such displays of pretense?
    UMM you just said that religous views are BS or do i need to repost it for you? i am not making any pretense so i have no clue about what you are talking about.


    Every day I see that the "Christians" are doing anything and everything except following the teachings of their Christ.
    then you are only looking at you want to see.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    That would be difficult since I don't see anyone could be harmed. If you feel otherwise, I'd love to see your definition.
    You can't see anyone being harmed, you've asked if anyone has been harmed, yet you cannot define the term in the context of the OP! How is it possible that you can or cannot see harm if you are unable to define it? It renders your position baseless.

    If we are to answer your question, "Has anyone ever been harmed by prayer before a public meeting?" I, for one, would need to know your definition of "harm".










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    In your view, perhaps. That doesn't negate the fact that people do, and should, have the freedom to say it whether you agree or not.
    `
    Exactly, which is why this ruling might eventually lead the way to a corporate controlled, religious oligarchy of a) Christian dominionism and b) Christian Reconsructualism

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And that's definitely the problem. Personal definitions of harm? Legal definitions of harm? Etc.

    Calamity, for example, feels that a public prayer in a public meeting "harms" him simply because he desires a secular society. So similarly, I could see Moon feeling that a Public Official engaging in sexual actions with a subordinate while married "harms" him simply becasue he desires a moral and ethical society.

    Then again, those would seemingly be personal definitions largely based upon opinion, as opposed to legal definitions. They would also be personal definitions that I could very easily see the majority of people disagreeing with as it relates to "harm".

    As it relates to this case, I'm unsure how much "harm" really played in. I need to read the actual ruling on it. However, I don't think it's a black and white notion that a prayer prior to a local public meeting, even if it happens to be towards a specific religion, is inherently the establishment of a state religion or a tangible push in that direction. I would imagine that if it was actually an official part of the proceedings OR if prayers of other religions in a similar situation were denied then it'd be more clearly problematic.
    Absolutely. If "harm" remains undefined how would there be a general agreement as to where the line is crossed? The definition will have to be defined and generally agreed upon AND equally applied.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  5. #105
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    Exactly, which is why this ruling might eventually lead the way to a corporate controlled, religious oligarchy of a) Christian dominionism and b) Christian Reconsructualism
    As opposed to a secular buracracy of unaccountabilty? Hat is far more down the path of actually occurring the a religious take over of the country.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  6. #106
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    You can't see anyone being harmed, you've asked if anyone has been harmed, yet you cannot define the term in the context of the OP! How is it possible that you can or cannot see harm if you are unable to define it? It renders your position baseless.

    If we are to answer your question, "Has anyone ever been harmed by prayer before a public meeting?" I, for one, would need to know your definition of "harm".
    No, my position is not baseless. If you have been harmed by a prayer, or think you could be, then tell me how. It really is an honest question.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy McNasty View Post
    You just replied to a post that said nothing about expressing love..
    `
    You're not too quick on the uptake.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    As opposed to a secular buracracy of unaccountabilty? Hat is far more down the path of actually occurring the a religious take over of the country.
    Yet you don't deny rich Christianity has their own designs on society.

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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    No, my position is not baseless. If you have been harmed by a prayer, or think you could be, then tell me how. It really is an honest question.
    "Harm"? You continue to use a word that you will not define. Define harm or your question is meaningless. Do you fear the answer? If you cannot define the term I'll accept a dictionary definition IF you provide one.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #110
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    Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    "Harm"? You continue to use a word that you will not define. Define harm or your question is meaningless. Do you fear the answer? If you cannot define the term I'll accept a dictionary definition IF you provide one.
    Well, he seems to be suggesting that an individual use their own definition for harm.

    "If YOU have been harmed by a prayer, or think you could be, then tell me how."

    Basically, he's asking that if you personally think you've been harmed (so however you personally define harm), or think you could be, he would like you to explain how that is.

    His definition of harm doesn't really matter much when asking you if YOU think you have or could be harmed...because nothing forces you to use his definition, so there's no reason for you to think you've been harmed or not harmed based on HIS definition.

    Basically, he seems to be asking people to do what calamity did....explain whether or not they personally think prayer at a public meeting harms them, and how.

    Calamity explained by explaining his apparent definition of harm....IE, an action that runs counter to his particular desire for how the world should be.

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