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Thread: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Obama let them be murdered. Period. But this nation is so ass backwards now, he could win a third term if he was allowed to run.
    Obama was directing the military response? I would have thought that's why he appoints members of the JCOS, and Sec. Def, and below them are all those military experts stationed all over the world, to direct responses to attacks. But I guess Obama doesn't delegate those things to the military like all other POTUS's and just sits around waiting for a skirmish to play general with.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    If they got there a few hours late they still could have killed most of the perpetrators who were ransacking the consulate at the time.

    It's almost a certainty that the ransackers weren't the same as the attackers. And if there was overlap, which seems likely enough, impossible for a military force to distinguish between those who showed up well after and the attackers. Some of those who were there in the immediate aftermath were the ones who took Stevens to the hospital, in an attempt to save his life. And an indiscriminate obliteration of the civilians in and around the buildings creates a whole new and perhaps worse set of problems.

    Besides, what kind of force would we need for that kind of operation - 50? 100? We didn't know how many were armed, it was at night, if they'd get reinforcements, etc. so this large force would be going in more or less blind, facing an known level of hostile fire, and the point would be to protect something, recover something, or just to kill a bunch of people? Are you suggesting we risk the lives of 50-100 more soldiers, maybe get a dozen or two killed, in this kind of operation, after the personnel were all evacuated, and when we'd have no idea really if who we killed were guilty of the attacks?
    Last edited by JasperL; 05-02-14 at 01:05 PM.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's almost a certainty that the ransackers weren't the same as the attackers. And if there was overlap, which seems likely enough, impossible for a military force to distinguish between those who showed up well after and the attackers. Some of those who were there in the immediate aftermath were the ones who took Stevens to the hospital, in an attempt to save his life. And an indiscriminate obliteration of the civilians in and around the buildings creates a whole new and perhaps worse set of problems.
    Thats just arm chair politicallly motivated mitigation .

    When does the most technologically advanced military in the world decide to stay put and let things play put when their Countrymen are under attack ?

    The only people qualified to assess the situation were told to stay put.

    Only Obama cam give the order to attack and his exact location is still mystery.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's almost a certainty that the ransackers weren't the same as the attackers. And if there was overlap, which seems likely enough, impossible for a military force to distinguish between those who showed up well after and the attackers. Some of those who were there in the immediate aftermath were the ones who took Stevens to the hospital, in an attempt to save his life. And an indiscriminate obliteration of the civilians in and around the buildings creates a whole new and perhaps worse set of problems.

    Besides, what kind of force would we need for that kind of operation - 50? 100? We didn't know how many were armed, it was at night, if they'd get reinforcements, etc. so this large force would be going in more or less blind, facing an known level of hostile fire, and the point would be to protect something, recover something, or just to kill a bunch of people? Are you suggesting we risk the lives of 50-100 more soldiers, maybe get a dozen or two killed, in this kind of operation, after the personnel were all evacuated, and when we'd have no idea really if who we killed were guilty of the attacks?

    It's like you have channeled Obama's brain waves from the night of 9/11/2012....
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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Thats just arm chair politicallly motivated mitigation .
    No, you don't get to dismiss it that easy. What part was incorrect?

    When does the most technologically advanced military in the world decide to stay put and let things play put when their Countrymen are under attack ?
    That's not what happened. And if you think they should have done more, aren't the commanders in the area better qualified than armchair warriors like you to determine what can be done with the assets they had, with the information available to them in real time, instead of with 20/20 hindsight? Or do you have that little respect and confidence in the military who have made careers out of making decisions you're second guessing here from thousands of miles away with no information?

    The only people qualified to assess the situation were told to stay put.
    Who exactly were these people told to stay put? If it was the special ops team in Tripoli, you're wrong. First of all, there were commanders who obviously had more information than the team, and as you know, the senior officers direct the teams, not the other way around, and it's because the senior officers in command centers had full information not available to that team in Tripoli. If they team had left Tripoli when they asked to leave, they'd have taken off after the civilians were on their way to the airport and passed the plane carrying the most seriously wounded in the air on their way to Tripoli, and would have arrived with nothing more to do than assist in loading civilians onto planes to Tripoli, from whence they'd just come.

    Only Obama cam give the order to attack and his exact location is still mystery.
    Who were we going to 'attack?' Send a fighter jet and have them, what, bomb the annex full of U.S. personnel? Where were troops going to come from in the middle of the night and how were they going to get to the Annex before the fighting was over? Again, Gates called this view of military capabilities 'cartoonish.' He has no particular reason to lie for Obama, out of office as he was when he made those comments.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's like you have channeled Obama's brain waves from the night of 9/11/2012....
    If you disagree with anything, I'd be interested in what, exactly? For example, how big a force would be needed to mop up there? And would you send them in with no urgent mission, risk all their lives, to kill people we'd have no idea whether or not they were involved in the attacks.

    And it wasn't Obama making those decisions - he DOES have a command structure that is set up just to handle this kind of thing without a single bit of input from him. If you're blaming Obama, you're also blaming that entire command chain.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No, you don't get to dismiss it that easy. What part was incorrect?



    That's not what happened. And if you think they should have done more, aren't the commanders in the area better qualified than armchair warriors like you to determine what can be done with the assets they had, with the information available to them in real time, instead of with 20/20 hindsight? Or do you have that little respect and confidence in the military who have made careers out of making decisions you're second guessing here from thousands of miles away with no information?



    Who exactly were these people told to stay put? If it was the special ops team in Tripoli, you're wrong. First of all, there were commanders who obviously had more information than the team, and as you know, the senior officers direct the teams, not the other way around, and it's because the senior officers in command centers had full information not available to that team in Tripoli. If they team had left Tripoli when they asked to leave, they'd have taken off after the civilians were on their way to the airport and passed the plane carrying the most seriously wounded in the air on their way to Tripoli, and would have arrived with nothing more to do than assist in loading civilians onto planes to Tripoli, from whence they'd just come.



    Who were we going to 'attack?' Send a fighter jet and have them, what, bomb the annex full of U.S. personnel? Where were troops going to come from in the middle of the night and how were they going to get to the Annex before the fighting was over? Again, Gates called this view of military capabilities 'cartoonish.' He has no particular reason to lie for Obama, out of office as he was when he made those comments.
    A much more qualified individual than YOU testified yesterday that we should have tried, so you'll understand if I take your military know how in reference to Benghazzi with a grain of salt

    Plus his sole motivation wasn't to cover for Obama

    Also one of the men Killed in the attack was killed painting a target while waiting for a strike that never came.

    Im going to bet he knew who he was targeting and thought it totally concievable that we could effectively and surgically taget the people responsible.

    Plus, its been 20 months and still no one's been held accountable.

    No terrroist droned or captured.

    Obama's ineptitude continues apparently.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    A much more qualified individual than YOU testified yesterday that we should have tried, so you'll understand if I take your military know how in reference to Benghazzi with a grain of salt
    Here's part of the exchange:

    CONNOLLY: I want to read to you the conclusion of the chairman of the [Armed Services] Committee, the Republican chairman Buck McKeon, who conducted formal briefings and oversaw that report. He said, quote, "I'm pretty well satisfied that given where the troops were, how quickly the thing all happened, and how quickly it dissipated we probably couldn't have done much more than we did." Do you take issue with the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee? In that conclusion?

    LOVELL: His conclusion that he couldn't have done much more than they did with the capability and the way they executed it?

    CONNOLLY: Given the timeframe.

    LOVELL: That's a fact.

    CONNOLLY: OK.

    LOVELL: The way it is right now. The way he stated it.

    CONNOLLY: All right, because I'm sure you can appreciate, general, there might be some who, for various and sundry reasons would like to distort your testimony and suggest that you're testifying that we could have, should have done a lot more than we did because we had capabilities we simply didn't utilize. That is not your testimony?

    LOVELL: That is not my testimony.
    And here's the thing - reviewing performance after the fact is routine, and I expect none of them with the kind of loss of life we see here find that things were handled perfectly or even competently. But you all aren't suggesting that - you're suggesting things like "Obama let them die!" Or CIA/State/Military let them all die without trying. The allegations isn't that they didn't just make mistakes, it's that these people in charge, across three or four agencies, including CIA/State and the military, (Obama of course) were bordering on treasonous. It's a standard that we haven't applied to any military operation like this, EVER, really. Not unless we have any specific allegations that there was anything like intentional wrongdoing, a DECISION to let them die. That just didn't happen, and no one involved at any level has suggested that.


    Plus his sole motivation wasn't to cover for Obama
    Who was Gates covering for? His friends in the military? Petraeus? You'll need to be specific.

    Also one of the men Killed in the attack was killed painting a target while waiting for a strike that never came.

    Im going to bet he knew who he was targeting and thought it totally concievable that we could effectively and surgically taget the people responsible.
    I can't comment on that, but we still had to get a fighter jet to that area in time to do some good, and, again, you're using 20/20 hindsight to allege wrongdoing that NO ONE involved in those decisions has also alleged. Do you think the military personnel who testified to these suggestions are liars? If so I'd like to see them called out for treason or whatever as well.

    Plus, its been 20 months and still no one's been held accountable.

    No terrroist droned or captured.

    Obama's ineptitude continues apparently.
    If you want to discuss Obama's record of droning and killing terrorists, that's fine. He's killed a bunch of them, and a lot of them by drones. Do you think he wants to let them off the hook? But wants to continue killing terrorists elsewhere, which he's doing, and getting no love from the civil libertarians on the right or left with his kill lists and all that.

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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Where was Obama when this went on? What were his orders? What action, did the President and the Secretary of State choose to take when they were informed that the enclave was under attack and American lives were at risk, including their ambassador?

    As far as we know now, they knew about it, chose to do nothing, and tried to cover it up by concocting a story that it was just angry protesters, this after a good nights sleep and a morning of fund raising.

    And where is the press? A low level hotel room break in, they are all over it. Dead Americans and a burning embassy, they are like "Huh? I don't see a story here." We are doomed if this is allowed to continue.
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    Re: General: We Should Have Tried in Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    There's a lot of former combat types on this forum.

    There isn't a one of us that doesn't recognize this for what it is. Obama is a disgusting, un-American coward that let four of our guys die a terrible death without raising a finger. He should be relieved of command for cowardice in the face of the enemy.

    I don't know how he can even look in the mirror.
    And every single actual military person who was in a position to actually make decisions that night says there wasn't anything that could have been done. But **** what they think, right? They're just the experts.

    A lot of people wish they could have done something. I knew Sean Smith, I damn sure wish there was something that could have been done. But there wasn't. The fantasy that right wing media has given you about "stand down" orders, an armed predator drone on station, etc, is just that. Fantasy. Fantasy born out of the frustration of feeling helpless.

    There was no "painted target."
    Last edited by Deuce; 05-02-14 at 05:19 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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