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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I take it you believe paleoconservatism to be simply an extreme version of neoconservativism. Paleoconservatism involves a rejection of classical liberalism.

    Tell me, do you really think that any medieval government would tolerate a same-sex marriage?
    No they wouldn't, which is why Republicans are being hardheaded in their medieval ways.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    To revisit:

    It's only a violation of the 1st Amendment if the minister has a right to legally solemnize marriage licenses.

    No one has that right. Everywhere that authority exists, it's a privilege subject to the pleasure of the judge authorizing a given person.

    Also, it's not that only churches are prevented from performing illegal unions, it's everyone with authority to officiate. Captains of ships registered to this state in international water can't do it either.
    No, telling a church they cant do something that is purely religious inside their church is against the First Ammendment.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A fantastic argument, I completely missed it.

    I got lucky, something smelled not right about the amendments claim so I read the amendment. Didn't do what people claimed it did, so then I dug into the statutes to find where the criminal penalty came from.



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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You know there's more than one polygamist compound secretly praying for this lawsuit to win....
    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch
    • http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/04/08/abuse-investigated-at-polygamist-compound-after-400-removed/
    • http://www.buzzfeed.com/erinlarosa/19-things-you-probably-dont-know-about-flds-polygamists

    ...and I bet a few Indian reservations would be happy as well.
    I have no problem with polygamy and think it should be legal.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I have no problem with polygamy and think it should be legal.
    Even when it involves marrying children? That is what I linked to, which you are now agreeing with.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    No, telling a church they cant do something that is purely religious inside their church is against the First Ammendment.

    Then the lawsuit brought by the Church should have made a claim about being able to perform a man-woman Religious Marriage without a Civil License being issues. That would be a valid claim that the law is infringing on their ability to perform a religious ceremony without government intervention.

    However the law does not prevent them from performing a Religious Marriage for a same-sex couple so the law in fact does not limit their ability to perform that ceremony.



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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A fantastic argument, I completely missed it.
    I'm not sure about that. Someone will have to explain why the penalty of $200 and/or a Class 1 misdemeanor isn't appropriate for a SSM ceremony. They can't get a license, as required, and can't perform any ceremony without a license. If they do they're subject to fine and charged with a crime.

    51-7. Penalty for solemnizing without license.

    Every minister, officer, or any other person authorized to solemnize a marriage under the laws of this State, who marries any couple without a license being first delivered to that person, as required by law, or after the expiration of such license, or who fails to return such license to the register of deeds within 10 days after any marriage celebrated by virtue thereof, with the certificate appended thereto duly filled up and signed, shall forfeit and pay two hundred dollars ($200.00) to any person who sues therefore, and shall also be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (R.C., c. 68, ss. 6, 13; 1871-2, c. 193, s. 8; Code, s. 1817; Rev., ss. 2087, 3372; C.S., s. 2499; 1953, c. 638, s. 1; 1967, c. 957, s. 5; 1993, c. 539, s. 415; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001-62, s. 7.)

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Even when it involves marrying children? That is what I linked to, which you are now agreeing with.

    It's legal for "children" to get married now, in New Hampshire I believe it's as young as 13 - in North Carolina I think it's as young as 14. That for current different-sex marriages. Now that usually takes (a) parents permission or (b) an affirmative response from a Judge, but they can still get married.



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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It can be, but the implication is that sex without procreation is bad. For instance, I am unable to procreate. It's fine, I don't see that as making me less of a person. I also don't think it means I shouldn't be able to have sex. Old people that get married usually can't procreate either, and straight women who give blow jobs won't procreate from doing that. Are those things bad?



    You implied that, and now you're trying to weasel out of it. What was your purpose in pointing out that they "aren't priests," if not to denigrate their status as a minister?
    Moral evil can only be constituted by an act of free will. Save the last one, the cases you mention involve people physically unable to procreate.

    The point was to correct a false statement by another poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    No they wouldn't
    Exactly.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not sure about that. Someone will have to explain why the penalty of $200 and/or a Class 1 misdemeanor isn't appropriate for a SSM ceremony. They can't get a license, as required, and can't perform any ceremony without a license. If they do they're subject to fine and charged with a crime.

    Already did. 51-6 is the section of the law that defines the illegal action. 51-7 is the penalty for violating 51-6. To violate 51-6 it must be a minister marrying a man and a woman.

    If they perform a Religious Marriage without a Civil License for a man and a man or a woman and a woman, they haven't violated 51-6 so the penalty described under 51-7 does not apply.


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