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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

  1. #51
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    And so there we have it. Paleocon has officially declared himself in opposition to the 1st Amendment.
    I didn't say that actually.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    To revisit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Go back to you posting the law, it is illegal for anybody who happens to be authorized to conduct a legal marriage ceremony to conduct a non-legal marriage. The tax exempt status doesnt matter. If that happens to be a minister in his own church, that is violating the 1st Ammendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
    It's only a violation of the 1st Amendment if the minister has a right to legally solemnize marriage licenses.

    No one has that right. Everywhere that authority exists, it's a privilege subject to the pleasure of the judge authorizing a given person.

    Also, it's not that only churches are prevented from performing illegal unions, it's everyone with authority to officiate. Captains of ships registered to this state in international water can't do it either.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Very interesting lawsuit. So the question is this? If the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, is not allowed to perform gay marriages, then are their first amendment religious freedoms being violated? They have certainly opened up a can of worms with this lawsuit.

    Discussion?

    Article is here - United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage.

    Note to mods - Title would not fit, so I had to take a couple of words out to make it fit.

    Second note to mods. The source changed the title, so now it doesn't match at all. LOL.
    As a UCCer myself, I've wondered that. I'm glad that they've done it. I think before we just didn't want to devote the resources. I thought about it myself, getting one of those "Universal Life Church" ordinations and performing gay weddings because it would be my religious freedom to do so.

    (My friend Anita is a married, gay, UCC minister.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    However, this law doesnt affect legal marriages only. It affects purely religous ones as well.
    And purely non-religious ones as well.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    You know there's more than one polygamist compound secretly praying for this lawsuit to win....
    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch
    • http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/04/08/abuse-investigated-at-polygamist-compound-after-400-removed/
    • http://www.buzzfeed.com/erinlarosa/19-things-you-probably-dont-know-about-flds-polygamists

    ...and I bet a few Indian reservations would be happy as well.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If a person presides over a marriage which is plainly invalid by law, they should be punished. UCC ministers (who aren't priests, BTW) are not above the law.
    UCC ministers are, in fact, ministers. Same as Lutherans or Baptists. The UCC isn't one of those "back of the Rolling Stone get ordained classified ad" deals. In fact one of the spiritual progenitors, and one of the churches that "United" into the UCC, was the Congregational Church of the Plymouth Pilgrims (you know, the Thanksgiving ones). The church that I've been a member of reflects this in it's name - Mayflower. (Though I think my wife got them in the divorce).


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    UCC ministers are, in fact, ministers. Same as Lutherans or Baptists. The UCC isn't one of those "back of the Rolling Stone get ordained classified ad" deals. In fact, one of the spiritual progenitors, and one of the churches that "United" into the UCC was the Congregational Church of the Plymouth Pilgrims. The church that I've been a member of reflects this in it's name - Mayflower. (Though I think my wife got them in the divorce).
    I didn't say they weren't.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I didn't say they weren't.
    You said they "weren't priests." Which is technically true, but neither is Joel Osteen or Billy Graham.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You said they "weren't priests." Which is technically true, but neither is Joel Osteen or Billy Graham.
    I didn't claim they were.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In the eyes of the law, it's the tax exemption status which makes them a church in the first place. Remember, we're talking about the law, not logic, not common sense.

    If you aren't tax exempt, you aren't a church, even if you look like a church, have people you call 'clergy', have regular worship services, and operate under the authority of a Biship, you are still not a church in so far as the law is concerned. If you aren't tax-exempt, you are a business.

    They way I would handle this in JerryLand is reserve all solemnization authority over all marriage licenses to the Justice of the Peace.
    i have never seen that presentation before, that a criteria to be found a legitimate religious entity was that it seek and receive eleemosynary status
    would you please share with us where that is a legal requirement
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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