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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    How are morals nothing more than personal opinions?

    Because it depends on what the individuals opinion is. Take an real world example from a few years ago:

    1. Muslim cab drivers felt it was immoral to have anything to do with dogs, therefore they refused to pick up fairs for anyone with a dog even though the owners of the cab company had no problem with dogs in their cabs. There were cases of cab drivers refusing fares for disabled people because of service dogs.

    2. Some people think it is immoral for Muslim cab drivers to refuse fares for the disabled.


    Two different views of what is and isn't "moral" depending on personal opinion. If you are a Muslim, you probably think actions under #1 are moral, however the vast majority of people in this country probably feel that #1 is immoral.



    >>>>

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    How are morals nothing more than personal opinions?
    If someone tells you their morals state the color blue is evil, can you prove their morals to be incorrect? And if so, how would you do it?

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because they are. That is in fact part of the definition of morals.

    Moral - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    mor·al
    adjective \ˈmȯr-əl, ˈmär-\

    : concerning or relating to what is right and wrong in human behavior

    : based on what you think is right and good

    : considered right and good by most people : agreeing with a standard of right behavior

    This is really easy. Prove that a moral position holds true using measurements of some kind. Use some scientific principle to prove its absolutely true that something you believe is right or wrong is no matter what.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1063190006

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    If someone tells you their morals state the color blue is evil, can you prove their morals to be incorrect? And if so, how would you do it?
    The burden of proof is on them to establish a positive claim.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The burden of proof is on them to establish a positive claim.
    Well then, it is just like the burden of proof is on YOU to prove there is a god which you cannot. The so called "proof" you provide is that of a book which was written by man. You cannot prove divine intervention, you cannot prove God's will, and you cannot prove your morals to be correct.

    There is a reason religion is called "faith" and not fact.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well then, it is just like the burden of proof is on YOU to prove there is a god which you cannot. The so called "proof" you provide is that of a book which was written by man. You cannot prove divine intervention, you cannot prove God's will, and you cannot prove your morals to be correct.

    There is a reason religion is called "faith" and not fact.
    I refer you to Aquinas's five ways.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1063190006

    The burden of proof is on them to establish a positive claim.
    No. The burden of proof is on you to establish that morals are objective, not subjective. Just as if I claimed that the rules of the all powerful Flying Spaghetti Monster must be followed by everyone and they are the only correct rules to follow, that would be for me to prove. You cannot prove that the FSM isn't real, nor can I, at this time, prove that he is, but you are currently in the position I would be in claiming the absolute morality code of the Pastafarianism. Your position is the one that requires scientific proof, not mine. You are maintaining the "morality is objective" position. Objectivity means it can be proven. Subjectivity means it can't.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    It implies that sodomy is morally acceptable, thus negatively impacting public morality (since the service is public).
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Absurd argument. Legal does not equate to morally acceptable. And if you're going off that your argument is really flawed because regardless if SSM is legalized homosexuality is legal.

    You lost
    Still waiting for your response on this. If you equate legal to be morally accepted, than sodomy is already morally accepted because it is legal. SSM doesn't change that.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I refer you to Aquinas's five ways.
    That isn't proof. That is philosophy and opinion. You really are having a problem with this whole fact thing in debating which you are not very good at.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I refer you to Aquinas's five ways.
    Are bull. That is not a scientific analysis. It is a personal opinion that arrives at points the person wants to draw. There is no way to prove any of those assertions.

    SparkNotes: Thomas Aquinas (c. 1225

    "Thus, Arguments 1, 2, 4, and 5 conclude that God exists because the world requires him as an explanation, and Argument 3 concludes that God could not not exist."

    Basically his arguments require believing that God exists prior to even drawing the conclusions being drawing. I could easily state that the FSM created the Earth 12 minutes ago and gave us all the necessary memories and personalities and even evidence and proof for everything we think we know and even beliefs as well, just to have a little fun with us. Or we could be an experiment set up for a group of mice to answer "the question of life, the universe, and everything" (which is 42 by the way).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Are bull. That is not a scientific analysis. It is a personal opinion that arrives at points the person wants to draw. There is no way to prove any of those assertions.

    SparkNotes: Thomas Aquinas (c. 1225

    "Thus, Arguments 1, 2, 4, and 5 conclude that God exists because the world requires him as an explanation, and Argument 3 concludes that God could not not exist."

    Basically his arguments require believing that God exists prior to even drawing the conclusions being drawing. I could easily state that the FSM created the Earth 12 minutes ago and gave us all the necessary memories and personalities and even evidence and proof for everything we think we know and even beliefs as well, just to have a little fun with us. Or we could be an experiment set up for a group of mice to answer "the question of life, the universe, and everything" (which is 42 by the way).
    Ad hominem. Aquinas's preexisting opinions have no relevance to the validity of his arguments.

    No they don't. And there is no evidence of the FSM.

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