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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

  1. #321
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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Same exact thing. Just like blood and mercury are the same exact thing because they're both liquids.
    So if it's such an essential counterpoint that technically heterosexuals can't marry same sex either, go out there and marry the same sex and prove it. Oh, you don't want to? Why is that i wonder...

    It doesn't matter anyway. Cause either way you look at it, people can marry opposite sex but not same sex. That's equal protection violation. Or heteros can marry but not homosexuals. Again equal protection

    Or just look at the ****ing motive which is "screw homos"

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Am I? Can you provide some examples of states in which the latter was true?
    In fact, the laws themselves were not what people were being charged with when it came to interracial marriages. The laws used to charge interracial couples usually were fornication laws or laws against cohabitation, not laws directly saying anything about interracial couples (but they would be violating those laws in any state where they were in that did not recognize interracial marriages). They were caught by those other laws, which weren't even declared themselves as unconstitutional. The fact that the Lovings (interracial couples) could not get married legally was used basically as a defense against why it was wrong to charge them with those laws. But it ended up taking down the interracial marriage bans, allowing them to be able to marry rather than taking down the criminal statutes against fornication or cohabitation.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-06-14 at 10:15 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #323
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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Actually, I was a little wrong here, but in a way that goes more toward proving my point. The SCOTUS did declare the application at least of certain cohabitation laws unconstitutional when done against interracial couples, however, this was done prior to Loving v Virginia. It was McLaughlin v. Florida.

    Interestingly enough, looking at the timelines for interracial marriages and same sex marriages, we are in fact going a little slower when it comes to same sex marriages than they did with interracial marriages (at least to a small degree). Over 90% of whites believed that there should be laws against interracial marriage in 1958. Just ten years later, all laws that banned interracial marriage were struck down by one of the most broad decisions in history (looking at the fact that normally the SCOTUS rules pretty narrowly). The SCOTUS in the case of Loving could have simply chosen to just cover criminal laws regarding interracial marriage, or broadened their ruling from McLaughlin a bit, without actually forcing the states to actually issue marriages licenses to and/or recognize interracial marriages. Instead, they took down interracial marriage bans completely.

    Now, however, we have also taken down those bans on private consensual sex (for the most part, although they haven't actually been challenged, the ruling in Lawrence means that very few, if any judges/prosecutors would be willing to charge someone for fornication or even adultery without some other rather serious charges to accompany them). This means that there is no reason left for justifying laws against same sex couples getting married/being legally recognized by the state as married. It is similar to the challenges made with Zablocki and Turner, where no criminal penalty came with the exclusion of certain people from marriage, but the restriction was deemed to not further any legitimate state interest as required per the 14th Amendment. Heck, the biggest difference is in fact that same sex marriage bans affect far more people (mainly due to being in place in more places) than the laws challenged in both Zablocki and Turner.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The law attempts to ensure that the proper licensing laws are followed when performing what the state considers a valid marriage. If you are not attempting to solemnize a marriage under the laws of the state, it does not apply.
    That is not how it is worded. They should have worded the law that way if it is what they meant.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The law attempts to ensure that the proper licensing laws are followed when performing what the state considers a valid marriage. If you are not attempting to solemnize a marriage under the laws of the state, it does not apply.
    The problem is in the previous section, the language is clear about 'man and woman' or 'husband and wife' but the penalty section you referenced says "any couple" and "marries." Well, any couple is obviously broad enough to include same sex couples, and 'marries' isn't defined. In the previous section the law says when ceremonial 'marriages' can happen - only after a license is obtained.

    The bottom line is the drafting of this whole section is a mess, and it's far from clear that the laws against a non-binding church 'marriage' of SS couples by someone authorized to perform binding marriage ceremonies is legal. It certainly would NOT be legal for man/woman ceremonies, but you're asserting that it would be legal for same sex couples by omission, and despite the term "any couple."

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If a person presides over a marriage which is plainly invalid by law, they should be punished. UCC ministers (who aren't priests, BTW) are not above the law.
    Because the harm they are causing to others by creating a married gay couple is?......

    And if no harm is caused, they should be punished why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Contraception is evil, so the analogy does not hold.
    LOLOLOLOL

    Nevamind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Because the harm they are causing to others by creating a married gay couple is?......

    And if no harm is caused, they should be punished why?
    Sacrilege. Encouraging sodomy. Degrading public morality.

    Harm is caused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    LOLOLOLOL

    Nevamind.
    That's not a response.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Sacrilege. Encouraging sodomy. Degrading public morality.

    Harm is caused.


    .
    Sacrilege only applies to religious beliefs, so it has ZERO to do with US law. Sodomy is a private act performed by couples....none of anyone's business and again...does ZERO harm to anyone.

    And you will have to elaborate on how it degrades public morality. I'm part of the public...I see no degradation. Please give examples of how the public/public morality is harmed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Sacrilege only applies to religious beliefs, so it has ZERO to do with US law. Sodomy is a private act performed by couples....none of anyone's business and again...does ZERO harm to anyone.

    And you will have to elaborate on how it degrades public morality. I'm part of the public...I see no degradation. Please give examples of how the public/public morality is harmed.
    It implies that sodomy is morally acceptable, thus negatively impacting public morality (since the service is public).

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