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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

  1. #311
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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Don't know what you're blathering about. We were discussing the law that pertains to marriages performed without a license, which has nothing to do with a ballot proposition.
    The law bans the obtaining of those licenses specifically for homosexuals...try to comprehend this at least

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    The law bans the obtaining of those licenses specifically for homosexuals...try to comprehend this at least
    Same sex marriage is not recognized in NC, so no, you cannot obtain a licence to marry someone of the same sex, no matter your sexual orientation.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The comment of mine that you seemed to take issue with specifically addressed the 1st Amendment claim regarding religious freedom (which is what has garnered all the interest and press). A due process claim is wholly different matter, even if they appear in the same lawsuit.

    The section of the law that the plaintiffs claim make it a misdemeanor for clergy to perform wholly religious ceremonies does no such thing. Nobody has ever or will ever be found guilty of such a thing. The law regards the intent to perform a state-recognized marriage without a licence. It is similar to laws found in many other states.
    Which part of this wording supports what you are saying:

    “Every minister, officer, or any other person authorized to solemnize a marriage under the laws of this state, who marries any couple without a license being first delivered to that person, as required by law, or after the expiration of such license, or who fails to return such license to the register of deeds within 10 days after any marriage celebrated by virtue thereof, with the certificate appended thereto duly filled and signed, shall forfeit and pay two hundred dollars ($200) to any person who sues therefore, and shall also be guilty of a Class I misdemeanor.”

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Same sex marriage is not recognized in NC, so no, you cannot obtain a licence to marry someone of the same sex, no matter your sexual orientation.
    Haha, that's like saying interracial marriage bans weren't racist cause you couldn't get a mixed race marriage, even if both people were white. Tell me why 2 heterosexual men would ever marry? *Of course* the law targets homosexuals. Violates equal protection and we've been thru this all before with Loving v Virginia, same exact thing.

    That's why the individual voters who are responsible should be sued, frankly, not just the state/fed

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Laws against interracial marriages were just that... they made it a criminal offense to join in or conduct an interracial marriage. Absence of a law is not the same thing as a law against.

    They can get married, I'd say it's more a question of state recognition.

    Pretty much everybody would be against such a law if one existed. The law in question has been in place since before same-sex marriage was an issue, so it's kind of hard to claim that it was enacted for some nefarious purpose. The law was put into place for the same reason that we penalize people for driving without a licence. Why bother to license if there's no consequence for not obtaining one?
    Actually, you are wrong. Some laws against interracial marriage made it a criminal offense to be in an interracial marriage. Others simply act as the same sex marriage bans do now, and not allow people to enter into interracial marriages.

    The same is true for two other types of marriage laws that have been struck down by the SCOTUS, those that restricted people from getting married if they were behind in their child support (Zablocki v Redhail) and those that restricted prison inmates from getting married without the permission of the warden (which was normally only given if there was a child involved) (Turner v Safley).

    Plus, the SCOTUS in Loving v VA could have ruled just on the constitutionality of criminal laws against interracial couples living together if their intent was to hold the view that the only reason that interracial marriage bans were wrong was because they criminalized interracial couples being together at all. They did not have to strike down laws that merely did not recognize interracial couples.

    And state recognition cannot be withheld when it comes to contracts, marriage without the state being able to show that a state interest is furthered by not recognizing such unions/relationships/marriages.

    And yet those laws do exist, as is evident by this law being cited in a lawsuit.

    The license was originally designed to ensure that only couples that the state approved of did get married. Since that time however, the license has morphed into a contract and a declaration of kinship document (similar to adoption papers or a birth certificate in its base purpose).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Same sex marriage is not recognized in NC, so no, you cannot obtain a licence to marry someone of the same sex, no matter your sexual orientation.
    Which is why the bans are unconstitutional not based on sexuality being discriminated against, but rather sex/gender. I, as a woman (and assuming I was single rather than currently married), cannot marry a woman in the state I am currently living in. Why? Solely because I am a woman. No other reason. That is gender discrimination. A condition is being put onto a government recognized contract that prevents people from doing something based solely on their gender/sex.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Which part of this wording supports what you are saying:

    Every minister, officer, or any other person authorized to solemnize a marriage under the laws of this state, who marries any couple without a license being first delivered to that person, as required by law, or after the expiration of such license, or who fails to return such license to the register of deeds within 10 days after any marriage celebrated by virtue thereof, with the certificate appended thereto duly filled and signed, shall forfeit and pay two hundred dollars ($200) to any person who sues therefore, and shall also be guilty of a Class I misdemeanor.”
    The law attempts to ensure that the proper licensing laws are followed when performing what the state considers a valid marriage. If you are not attempting to solemnize a marriage under the laws of the state, it does not apply.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Haha, that's like saying interracial marriage bans weren't racist cause you couldn't get a mixed race marriage, even if both people were white. Tell me why 2 heterosexual men would ever marry? *Of course* the law targets homosexuals. Violates equal protection and we've been thru this all before with Loving v Virginia, same exact thing.

    That's why the individual voters who are responsible should be sued, frankly, not just the state/fed
    Same exact thing. Just like blood and mercury are the same exact thing because they're both liquids.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The law attempts to ensure that the proper licensing laws are followed when performing what the state considers a valid marriage. If you are not attempting to solemnize a marriage under the laws of the state, it does not apply.
    The state has to be able to justify any restrictions it makes within their laws (particularly when challenged) by showing those restrictions further a legitimate state interest. What state interest exactly is being furthered by not allowing same sex couples to marry? (Remember, the reasoning has to be able to apply to same sex couples only, because if any opposite sex couples fit with the reasoning, yet are not excluded also from legal marriage recognition, then the reasoning is not sound legally.)
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, you are wrong. Some laws against interracial marriage made it a criminal offense to be in an interracial marriage. Others simply act as the same sex marriage bans do now, and not allow people to enter into interracial marriages
    Am I? Can you provide some examples of states in which the latter was true?

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