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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No church was ever barred from conducting same-sex weddings. Clergy weren't allowed to solemnize the legal document, is all, and signing a legal contract is not a religious right. This is about clergy solemnizing marriage licenses for the state.

    So many people still believe gay marriage is about gays and marriage. It never was. In this case it's about dissolving the wall of separation.
    The story in the OP leaves that part out. The below story explaines the wording of the law: "after the passage of Amendment One in 2012, it became illegal for a member of the clergy to officiate at a wedding where a marriage license is not present."

    Defending True Religious Liberty: Church Files Lawsuit in Support of Marriage Equality*|*Rev. Emily C. Heath

    This is what the churches are suing over. They have been conducting non-official, strictly religious marriage ceremonies and the law is now saying they can be arrested for it.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Wow, so you literally want the state to dictate which private ceremonies are approved and which ones aren't.

    Try aren't signing a marriage certificate illegally. They are holding a private ceremony. Should we also punish people for holding an Easter mass in a manner that the state doesn't recognize?
    The state should disallow fraudulent marriage ceremonies.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Very interesting lawsuit. So the question is this? If the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, is not allowed to perform gay marriages, then are their first amendment religious freedoms being violated? They have certainly opened up a can of worms with this lawsuit.

    Discussion?

    Article is here - United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage.

    Note to mods - Title would not fit, so I had to take a couple of words out to make it fit.

    Second note to mods. The source changed the title, so now it doesn't match at all. LOL.

    So who is stopping the United Church of Christ from performing a wedding for gay couples? Isn't the church only supposed to worry about the spiritual function of the wedding rather than the politics the couple may or may not face out in the world?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So who is stopping the United Church of Christ from performing a wedding for gay couples? Isn't the church only supposed to worry about the spiritual function of the wedding rather than the politics the couple may or may not face out in the world?
    NC's new law is. It has made it illegal to perform a marriage when the couple doesnt have a marriage liscense. This means church's cant perform purely religious ceremonial marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The state should disallow fraudulent marriage ceremonies.
    That is the point, these are purely ceremonial and not legal.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here, from the cite, is what undermines your presentation:

    the state has intruded into religious turf
    *full disclosure: my friend is a party to this suit*
    while i do not believe that impairs my objectivity, others could insist otherwise
    The relevant statuit:
    § 51-6. Solemnization without license unlawful.[
    No minister, officer, or any other person authorized to solemnize a marriage under the laws of this State shall perform a ceremony of marriage between a man and woman, or shall declare them to be husband and wife, until there is delivered to that person a license for the marriage of the said persons, signed by the register of deeds of the county in which the marriage license was issued or by a lawful deputy or assistant. There must be at least two witnesses to the marriage ceremony.

    Whenever a man and woman have been lawfully married in accordance with the laws of the state in which the marriage ceremony took place, and said marriage was performed by a magistrate or some other civil official duly authorized to perform such ceremony, and the parties thereafter wish to confirm their marriage vows before an ordained minister or minister authorized by a church, or in a ceremony recognized by any religious denomination, federally or State recognized Indian Nation or Tribe, nothing herein shall be deemed to prohibit such confirmation ceremony; provided, however, that such confirmation ceremony shall not be deemed in law to be a marriage ceremony, such confirmation ceremony shall in no way affect the validity or invalidity of the prior marriage ceremony performed by a civil official, no license for such confirmation ceremony shall be issued by a register of deeds, and no record of such confirmation ceremony may be kept by a register of deeds. (1871-2, c. 193, s. 4; Code, s. 1813; Rev., s. 2086; C.S., s. 2498; 1957, c. 1261; 1959, c. 338; 1967, c. 957, ss. 6, 9; 1977, c. 592, s. 2; 2001-62, s. 6.)

    GS_51-6
    A minister can perform whatever marriage they like, so long as they give up their authority to legally solemnize a marriage. So here again you have to establish a Church's right to act for the state in solemnizing a marriage.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The relevant statuit:

    A minister can perform whatever marriage they like, so long as they give up their authority to legally solemnize a marriage. So here again you have to establish a Church's right to act for the state in solemnizing a marriage.
    Why should a minister have to totally give up their rights to legally solemnize legal marriages to be able to sometimes perform a purely religious ceremony? They are not trying to make these marriages legal.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The state should disallow fraudulent marriage ceremonies.
    Then the state should also disallow fraudulent Easter ceremonies.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Then the state should also disallow fraudulent Easter ceremonies.
    wonder how much he would appreciate a state law that said one must receive a state issued license to attend church ... and those with strong conservative views are prohibited from receiving such license
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Why should a minister have to totally give up their rights to legally solemnize legal marriages to be able to sometimes perform a purely religious ceremony?
    Copy of The Question Behind The Question By: John G. Miller by Ryan McHale on Prezi

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    ...a minister have to totally give up their rights to legally solemnize legal marriages...
    Ministers don't have that right to begin with.

    That's what has to be created, a religious right to legalize a marriage.

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