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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

  1. #241
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And would cost more and be much more inconvenient than it is now.

    And the laws could still just as easily restrict recognition (especially full recognition) of those contracts for individuals as they currently do for the marriage contract now. The difference would be less protective laws against discrimination when it comes to marriage. Plus, it would cost a whole lot more for no benefit.
    It would be more inconvenient for a same sex couple to get married, than it is now? More discriminatory?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, it isn't. As I've said, other species exist without ever having sexual intercourse. They reproduce differently than us. And those species thrived long before mammals came along, and many still do. Bonding is the reason sex exists.
    Here are two questions:

    Are there any species which reproduce by means other than sex?

    Are there any species which have sex for a purpose other than reproduction (i.e. they reproduce some other way)?

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It would be more inconvenient for a same sex couple to get married, than it is now? More discriminatory?
    Yes. It would be much more inconvenient for everyone. And there would be no laws in place that would guarantee that they wouldn't still have to go through these same lawsuits that would ensure that their contracted marriages are treated the exact same as opposite sex ones.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The church should be able to perform SSM ceremonies, but the fact that their religion supports it doesn't mean the government should. If people don't want religion defining marriage then you have to have it both ways with it being left up to the people, not having a bias where religion is allowed to dictate government policy and recognition when it happens to be convenient for your views.
    I think that's the point. I don't believe this court case is suggesting that NC has to make same sex marriage legal. It's arguing that the state can't punish a church, or make it illegal for a church, to have a private religious same sex marriage ceremony.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Here are two questions:

    Are there any species which reproduce by means other than sex?

    Are there any species which have sex for a purpose other than reproduction (i.e. they reproduce some other way)?
    Many species reproduce asexually. And the vast majority of fish lay their eggs, then the male comes to fertilize the eggs after they are laid. (No sex.)

    External fertilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I was mistaken about birds. But even many amphibian species have external fertilization. Again, no sex. And many species have sex only to make babies. We, like many other mammals, especially those with the highest identified mental capacities are not among them. We don't require "being in heat" to want to have sex.

    And sex is about bonding for us. It in facts naturally gets us addicted to the oxytocin released by having sex with the same person, creating a bond with that person.

    Sex and the Brain: How Neuroscience May Soon Change All Our Relationships | Mark Turrell – Changing the World…

    "Life without a partner can be significantly more stressful than life with one."

    For most of us, sex is needed for many reasons, especially bonding. Heck, given our current technology, we do not need sex to reproduce. We have IVF and other methods to reproduce that require no sexual intercourse.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-01-14 at 06:43 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #246
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Not her maiden name...see where I am going here?

    Really we have been happily married for 20+ years. Least I have.

    I tell her all the time she is my favorite wife...so far.
    My wife's maiden name waa on the note, when we had a note. She never changed her name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #247
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It could easily be argued that what we did and still do with dogs and cats was and still is not justified.
    I had no idea you were a vegan.


    Do you really think it's right we fix animals to control their population
    Yes. The harm to the animal is minimal, and it prevents future dog and cat generations from suffering feral existences.


    declaw them
    I do not support declawing cats, no matter how many times they shred my couch.


    Do you think it's right that we messed with their genetic code and gave them all sorts of genetic diseases and other issues because of our selfish desires?
    I do not support it when it harms the animals.

    In many (but not all) cases, though, the changes are mutually beneficial. A dog bred to shepherd animals will, as best we can tell, enjoy shepherding animals; a dog bred to like human beings will enjoy being around human beings. Cats often live a much better life when domesticated than when feral.


    I don't think you can use dogs and cats as an example here.
    I'm quite confident I can. To be clear, the keys are mutual benefit, and harm.

    When we domesticate an animal, and the benefits are mutual, then the domestication is justifiable. When we take care of our dogs, and they enjoy the tasks for which we have bred them, then it is ethically irrelevant that domestication is an "unnatural" process.

    If our actions harm an animal, then we have an ethical issue. The problem lies not in that we did something "unnatural" by domesticating the animal, it's that our choices have harmed that animal.

    So, even if we believe that "domestication is unethical," this is not based on doing something "unnatural." It's based on doing harm.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes. It would be much more inconvenient for everyone. And there would be no laws in place that would guarantee that they wouldn't still have to go through these same lawsuits that would ensure that their contracted marriages are treated the exact same as opposite sex ones.
    Its much easier for a same sex couple to get married, now?

    Then, what the hell's the problem?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #249
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Its much easier for a same sex couple to get married, now?

    Then, what the hell's the problem?
    It is in many places than it would be to change everything. Which would take more time to implement? A SCOTUS ruling that says that it is unconstitutional to restrict marriage based on sex/gender or a complete revamp of the marriage and spousal recognition laws that would completely change how society deals with marriage and the kinship rights/privileges/responsibilities that go with it? Pretty sure it is the first one, the SCOTUS ruling.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Are there any species which reproduce by means other than sex?
    As already noted, yes.


    Are there any species which have sex for a purpose other than reproduction (i.e. they reproduce some other way)?
    Many species do, in fact, exhibit homosexual behavior.

    Many primates (and, I'm guessing, lots of other animals) engage in sexual acts for pleasure, as well as to establish social connections and hierarchies, and are not thinking too much about the reproductive aspect. For example, bonobos are well-documented as using sex for a wide variety of purposes, such as stress relief and conflict avoidance.

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