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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

  1. #221
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Not her maiden name...see where I am going here?

    Really we have been happily married for 20+ years. Least I have.

    I tell her all the time she is my favorite wife...so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Is her name on the note?
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Animals certainly do not exist for the "benefit of mankind." Mosquitos, lions, jellyfish and thousands of other species that are hostile or harmful to humans offer no real "benefit" to humanity.

    There is also no question that dogs evolved from wolves, due to selective pressures exerted by humans on individuals from that species. By domesticating dogs, we have subverted the "natural ends" of wolves.

    In fact, if it is justifiable to subvert the "natural end" of an animal in order to suit a purpose of our choosing, then it ought to be justifiable to subvert a human's "natural end" to serve a purpose of our choosing.
    It could easily be argued that what we did and still do with dogs and cats was and still is not justified. Do you really think it's right we fix animals to control their population, declaw them(basically cutting off the end of their fingers) because we don't like them clawing up our stuff or that we kill them because they are a bother? Do you think it's right that we messed with their genetic code and gave them all sorts of genetic diseases and other issues because of our selfish desires? I don't think you can use dogs and cats as an example here.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-01-14 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Is her name on the note?

    Under current Civil Marriage law it doesn't' have to be. A spouse inherits property with no tax consequences.


    Something that exists as a function of legal recognition of Civil Marriage, you can't write a "contract" that performs the same function. For example Estate Tax law provides that a spouse that inherits a home can sell that home and still claim the $500,000 exemption on profit in the sale even though the individual is single and would normally only be able to claim $250,000 as an exemption.



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  4. #224
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's not about convenience. It's about allowing religious freedom when it doesn't harm others.

    Do try to grasp the actual distinction and leave the strawman at the door.
    Oh please... They are arguing that not allowing SSM is the state judging that "children of God" are unfit for holy matrimony. If you want to argue along the lines of religion one could also say that it does harm others, because it will reinforce a life of sin leading these people to be judged for it and spend an eternity in everlasting hell (which is my religious beliefs).

    The ministers should be allowed to perform ceremonies, but the state is under no obligation to recognize those couples as legally wed because their religious denomination believes that they are as such in the eyes of their god.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    If you want to argue along the lines of religion one could also say that it does harm others, because it will reinforce a life of sin leading these people to be judged for it and spend an eternity in everlasting hell (which is my religious beliefs).
    I'll amend my statement:

    People support freedom of religion when it does not legally harm anyone. You are creating a BS strawman when you claim that the support is based on convenience and not that principle.

    The ministers should be allowed to perform ceremonies, but the state is under no obligation to recognize those couples as legally wed because their religious denomination believes that they are as such in the eyes of their god.
    The state is under such an obligation, because the religious freedom does not legally harm anyone.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Under current Civil Marriage law it doesn't' have to be. A spouse inherits property with no tax consequences.


    Something that exists as a function of legal recognition of Civil Marriage, you can't write a "contract" that performs the same function. For example Estate Tax law provides that a spouse that inherits a home can sell that home and still claim the $500,000 exemption on profit in the sale even though the individual is single and would normally only be able to claim $250,000 as an exemption.
    Eliminate the estate tax. Does that solve the problem?

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Eliminate the estate tax. Does that solve the problem?
    If you eliminate it for everyone.

    One down -- one thousand one hundred thirty-seven left to go. Just at the federal level.


    *******************

    Because my wife is my legal spouse, she can be treated for illness or injury at military hospitals and clinics or if we need to see a civilian doctor we can through TRICARE.

    Should we eliminate medial care for the spouses of service members defending out country?



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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    But it is a natural end, is it not?

    Is that objectively true?
    It is a natural consequence, but a much more frequent one is bonding. And there is no necessity that sex must be for or result in procreation.

    Do you understand the difference between objective and subjective? Because it does not seem like you do. Objectivity requires some proof, evidence, facts. Subjectivity is opinion, beliefs. Morals are subjective because it is a personal opinion of what is right or wrong, which is why so many people have so many differing beliefs on what is right or wrong.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    People used to have more children than they do now. Those aren't intended to obstruct procreation.
    They had more children out of necessity. For one, the infant mortality rate was much higher before. For another, more children were needed to help around the farm when we were a more dependent on individual farms being the main source of food.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Contraception impedes procreation in the specific instance.

    Is the person doing this by abstaining or by contracepting?
    Doesn't matter, both have the same result and both are the person's individual choice.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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