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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If a person presides over a marriage which is plainly invalid by law, they should be punished. UCC ministers (who aren't priests, BTW) are not above the law.
    So you are ok with the State forcing views on religious organizations as long as you agree with those views?

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So you are ok with the State forcing views on religious organizations as long as you agree with those views?
    They don't have to agree with the law.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    They don't have to agree with the law.
    Oh ok, so you have no problem with the state forcing religious insitutions to pass out condoms then. AFterall, they don't have to agree with the law right?

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Very interesting lawsuit. So the question is this? If the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, is not allowed to perform gay marriages, then are their first amendment religious freedoms being violated? They have certainly opened up a can of worms with this lawsuit.

    Discussion?

    Article is here - United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage.

    Note to mods - Title would not fit, so I had to take a couple of words out to make it fit.

    Second note to mods. The source changed the title, so now it doesn't match at all. LOL.
    What many don't see is that in order for this lawsuit to succeed, you have to establish a Church's right to legally officiate a municipal contract. In other words, you have to join Church and State. Do you really want the Church in government, or do you want the wall of separation respected?

    So, I'm against this lawsuit, and my opposition has nothing to do with gay rights.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Churches don't perform marriages. They perform weddings. There's a big difference. No church is prevented from performing a same-sex wedding.

    What many don't see is that in order for this lawsuit to succeed, you have to establish a Church's right to legally officiate a municipal contract. In other words, you have to join Church and State. Do you really want the Church in government, or do you want the wall of separation respected?

    So, I'm against this lawsuit, and my opposition has nothing to do with gay rights.
    This should end the thread, but, as i am sure you'll agree... It won't.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Oh ok, so you have no problem with the state forcing religious insitutions to pass out condoms then. AFterall, they don't have to agree with the law right?
    Contraception is evil, so the analogy does not hold.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What many don't see is that in order for this lawsuit to succeed, you have to establish a Church's right to legally officiate a municipal contract. In other words, you have to join Church and State. Do you really want the Church in government, or do you want the wall of separation respected?

    So, I'm against this lawsuit, and my opposition has nothing to do with gay rights.
    But the marriage they are conducting is a purely ceremonial and religious. They are not conducting a municipal contract.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    But the marriage they are conducting is a purely ceremonial and religious. They are not conducting a municipal contract.
    No church was ever barred from conducting same-sex weddings. Clergy weren't allowed to solemnize the legal document, is all, and signing a legal contract is not a religious right. This is about clergy solemnizing marriage licenses for the state.

    So many people still believe gay marriage is about gays and marriage. It never was. In this case it's about dissolving the wall of separation.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-30-14 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No church was ever barred from conducting same-sex weddings. Clergy weren't allowed to solemnize the legal document, is all, and signing a legal contract is not a religious right. This is about clergy solemnizing marriage licenses for the state.
    here, from the cite, is what undermines your presentation:
    State law says it is a misdemeanor crime for ministers to perform a marriage ceremony without having a marriage license for a couple.
    the state has intruded into religious turf
    *full disclosure: my friend is a party to this suit*
    while i do not believe that impairs my objectivity, others could insist otherwise
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If a person presides over a marriage which is plainly invalid by law, they should be punished. UCC ministers (who aren't priests, BTW) are not above the law.

    Wow, so you literally want the state to dictate which private ceremonies are approved and which ones aren't.

    They aren't signing a marriage certificate illegally. They are holding a private ceremony. Should we also punish people for holding an Easter mass in a manner that the state doesn't recognize?
    Last edited by Deuce; 04-30-14 at 01:30 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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