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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There is nothing 'bad' about the state recognizing marriage. It makes life easier, more predictable for families, creditors, the children, care providers (hospitals, doctors), schools, etc. Essentially a marriage contract says, "That big list of contractual rights and responsibilities over there, that stuff that tells society and the family who is responsible, what happens to kids if one parent dies, who can make healthcare decisions, who owes what, etc. - the state incorporates ALL that and grants this couple that very, very long list of contractual rights and obligations with this simple set of two signatures and a nominal fee."
    The problem with it is that the government is in charge of the contract and can change it at any time without the input from those held to it.

    Of course, I'm against all licensing by the state as it provides the state an outlet to regulate people and control property.

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    NC's new law is. It has made it illegal to perform a marriage when the couple doesnt have a marriage liscense. This means church's cant perform purely religious ceremonial marriages.
    Ah, thank you for that. Yes, that is obviously unconstitutional. It is one thing for the state to not recognize as legally binding the actions of a church, it is a whole different ballgame when the state tries to make a religious practice illegal.

    The state should never compel someone to act in contradiction to their faith.
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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Why should there be a license at all? If 2 people want to marry, they should just do what our own forefathers did, and consider themselves married, and **** the attorneys, the government, and all the other vampires.
    The same reason we have birth certificates and adoption records, because people take advantage of situations that are not written out. What would stop someone from stepping in when a person cannot say otherwise and claim to be another person's spouse without a marriage license? Do you have to wait for someone else to come and verify that yes, this is their spouse, their loved one, their mate? Take the movie "Overboard" for example. They didn't demand to see his marriage license nor even verify that they were legally married and he simply took her out of the hospital and made her his "wife" because she couldn't remember any differently and no one else came to claim her. Is that right? What would stop anyone from making a claim that there was a misunderstanding about their relationship status despite spending many years together because one simply didn't want to share possessions despite their situation together? A marriage "license" (contract) provides proof that "yes, these two people are agreeing to be together as spouses and accept those laws pertaining to being spouses with each other". Just as adoption records prove that a person has agreed to take on the responsibility of being a parent toward a child, to give that child the legal recognition of "child" to that adult and the adult legal recognition of "parent" over that child.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I believe marriage licenses should be treated as a contract and obtained through an attorney, taking the government totally out of the equation.
    That makes no sense from a market perspective. Marriages are standard contracts, often with extensive case law to resolve ambiguities that inevitably arise, so it's very easy for third parties of all sorts to know their rights and responsibilities when dealing with "married" couples. Your way, a creditor has to see, read, interpret, and/or modify his contract to comply with the 1000s of potentially unique contracts for 'married' couples. What's gained by that, except a LOT more work for attorneys?

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    Re: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

    I have to read more about that. No Church should ever be forced to conduct any ceremony it does not beleive in, nor prevented from performing a service it does. Why havent I heard about this outrage? I watch Fox all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Ah, thank you for that. Yes, that is obviously unconstitutional. It is one thing for the state to not recognize as legally binding the actions of a church, it is a whole different ballgame when the state tries to make a religious practice illegal.

    The state should never compel someone to act in contradiction to their faith.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    I am a UCC member. I remember many many years ago our Pastor talking about wanting do the first SSM in Indiana. He is long since retired.
    UCCers unite!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How is removing a government authority like obtaining world peace?
    It's like world peace because it isn't going to happen. World Peace is not going to be obtained and neither is the government getting out of marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    One requires a law being passed and the other requires people to fundamentally change.
    Yeah, the government is going to just "remove" itself from marriage and thus is going to remove itself from getting money from licenses, etc.

    I have a bridge in Iraq to sell you real cheap if you think lawmakers are going to vote to get government out of marriage. Just send me $50 million dollars and I'll send you the deed. Promise

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That makes no sense from a market perspective. Marriages are standard contracts, often with extensive case law to resolve ambiguities that inevitably arise, so it's very easy for third parties of all sorts to know their rights and responsibilities when dealing with "married" couples. Your way, a creditor has to see, read, interpret, and/or modify his contract to comply with the 1000s of potentially unique contracts for 'married' couples. What's gained by that, except a LOT more work for attorneys?
    Exactly! Every cry I've ever heard about government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all fails to recognize that marriage is so ingrained into so many parts of our lives that we would still need to set up a lot of different protections in some other way and it would make things much more complicated for not only the couple, but also their families and anyone who currently gives some benefit based on two people being married, including creditors, lawyers, police officers, hospitals, the military, the government (still), and many others. It makes the entire thing simply cost a whole lot more with less protections and more complications, in essence, less efficient and more costly with no actual benefits.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-01-14 at 01:23 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's like world peace because it isn't going to happen. World Peace is not going to be obtained and neither is the government getting out of marriage.


    Yeah, the government is going to just "remove" itself from marriage and thus is going to remove itself from getting money from licenses, etc.

    I have a bridge in Iraq to sell you real cheap if you think lawmakers are going to vote to get government out of marriage. Just send me $50 million dollars and I'll send you the deed. Promise
    Then you're arguing that people are indeed powerless to remove the government from their lives once they have involved themselves in it. Why even be interested in politics at all if that is your view?

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    So why isnt this a big outrage? The gooberment tellin the church what it can and cant do. Can you imagine the shrill screams from the RWers if the gooberment said they had to conduct SSMs in all chruchs?
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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