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Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They are government contracts that establish relationships of legal kinship. They are very much akin to adoption paperwork and/or birth certificates, which do much the same thing, just with less laws that pertaining to those relationship statuses.
    They also allow the government to make gay marriage illigitimate. Even when too much government gets in the way of yall's agenda, you can't see that big government is bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It does once the signatures are put on it and it is filed with the state, just like any other contract, it has to be signed to be valid. You don't need an actual "ceremony", particularly not a religious one, to be married.
    True! A good friend of mine lived with his girlfriend for a decade or more. When she got pregnant, as planned, and about a month before the baby was due, they decided they might as well get married so dad had full legal rights. They could do this with lawyers, or take 30 minutes out of a lunch hour and do all they needed done for the cost of getting a marriage license. Being practical people, they went to the courthouse on their lunch hour, and dad gained dozens or hundreds of legal rights and responsibilities with a signature and $20 or whatever it cost back then.

    The wife in particular didn't care about "Marriage" - her parents were both married and divorced multiple times so the "glow" was off the "sanctity of marriage" for her. They DID care that dad could make decisions for the child, if she died there was no doubt who the legal guardian for the child became, that while home caring for the child for a few years, she could join his very nice benefits package at work, etc. Some of those SS couples can get with a lawyer, but many others are explicitly denied them by laws against SSM.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Gay marriage harms the moral fabric of society because it promotes sodomy.
    Yeah, I don't see it.

    There is no moral requirement to have sex exclusively for procreative purposes, or for everyone to have children, or to have as many children as physically possible.

    "Natural ends" are irrelevant. Reproduction solely for the sake of reproduction is not an ethical principle. It is a choice that an individual can make, and a biological impulse, but there is no requirement to reproduce so that your children can reproduce, and their children can reproduce, and so on.

    If I have sex purely to engage in pleasure, this in and of itself causes no harm. It does not stop me from having sex at some other time in order to procreate. It does not convince me not to have children at some later date. It does not change my neighbor's mental calculus about whether or not s/he should have children.

    One of the problems that California's Prop 8 had in court, by the way, was precisely this issue -- its defenders were incapable of explaining how any straight marriages were actually harmed, let alone altered, by allowing same-sex marriage.

    It's not a zero-sum game. The decision to pursue sex for pleasure does not prevent or exclude sex for procreation. No harm, no foul, no justification for regulation.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I agree with you on that. When our forefathers got married, they didn't get a license. They had a wedding ceremony, and they were married. Marriage licenses were invented in Medieval Europe as a way For the Church to extort money from people, but in the colonies which later became the United States, it began as a way to separate the races. Each state had their own rules, and most states did not grant licenses to a couple, one of whom was white, and the other not.

    Beyond that, I would argue that marriage is a fundamental right, not a privilege, and the government has no business regulating it.
    I believe marriage licenses should be treated as a contract and obtained through an attorney, taking the government totally out of the equation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They also allow the government to make gay marriage illigitimate. Even when too much government gets in the way of yall's agenda, you can't see that big government is bad.
    Not anymore than the government refusing to recognize a private contract between people.

    Marriage isn't going anywhere. Too many people want it and need it for it to disappear. It may change over time, but it isn't going away so it is pointless to think it is a "bad" thing. It is simply a way to make government just a little more efficient, especially if it is actually used as it should be, in accordance with all our laws, especially the US Constitution. This isn't "big government". It is, for once, government actually trying to be efficient and do so in a way that actually benefits all parties. It is merely flaws in our laws, that are currently being worked on, that are the problem.

    I prefer not to throw out the baby with the bath water simply because the bath gets dirty.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I believe marriage licenses should be treated as a contract and obtained through an attorney, taking the government totally out of the equation.
    Will never happen though, a pipe dream like "World Peace". So in the meantime gays will continue fighting for SSM and they will win. The right looks more and more foolish each year when it fights against SSM.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I believe marriage licenses should be treated as a contract and obtained through an attorney, taking the government totally out of the equation.
    Why? As it is right now, the marriage license is the most efficient contract we have and it is very little different than a birth certificate or adoption records. The government would still have to recognize them for recognition. They are mainly about that legal kinship establishment, legal spousehood. The same thing that would come from a private document but would unnecessarily cost many much more money to do just because some are too ignorant to recognize the entire situation.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They also allow the government to make gay marriage illigitimate. Even when too much government gets in the way of yall's agenda, you can't see that big government is bad.
    There is nothing 'bad' about the state recognizing marriage. It makes life easier, more predictable for families, creditors, the children, care providers (hospitals, doctors), schools, etc. Essentially a marriage contract says, "That big list of contractual rights and responsibilities over there, that stuff that tells society and the family who is responsible, what happens to kids if one parent dies, who can make healthcare decisions, who owes what, etc. - the state incorporates ALL that and grants this couple that very, very long list of contractual rights and obligations with this simple set of two signatures and a nominal fee."

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I believe marriage licenses should be treated as a contract and obtained through an attorney, taking the government totally out of the equation.
    Why should there be a license at all? If 2 people want to marry, they should just do what our own forefathers did, and consider themselves married, and **** the attorneys, the government, and all the other vampires.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Will never happen though, a pipe dream like "World Peace". So in the meantime gays will continue fighting for SSM and they will win. The right looks more and more foolish each year when it fights against SSM.
    How is removing a government authority like obtaining world peace? One requires a law being passed and the other requires people to fundamentally change.

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