Page 15 of 39 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 390

Thread: United Church of Christ sues over NC ban on same-sex marriage

  1. #141
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Which supports what I said.



    I didn't claim an individual was forced to approve.

    Does the law in North Carolina differentiate between religions?

    What on Earth are you talking about?
    No, you didn't. You implied it was a legal institution only since you are trying to say that it is okay for government to prevent private marriage ceremonies (that have no legal binding to them) be punished or be illegal because the couples involved do not have a "marriage license". The "marriage license" we have today is a contract, not actual permission from the government to be in an intimate relationship, marriage. It is a method for the government to recognize and track who is legally claiming kinship to another, particularly a person who is not blood related to them and who they wish to maintain a specific relationship type with.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #142
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    06-30-16 @ 07:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,309
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, you didn't. You implied it was a legal institution only since you are trying to say that it is okay for government to prevent private marriage ceremonies (that have no legal binding to them) be punished or be illegal because the couples involved do not have a "marriage license". The "marriage license" we have today is a contract, not actual permission from the government to be in an intimate relationship, marriage. It is a method for the government to recognize and track who is legally claiming kinship to another, particularly a person who is not blood related to them and who they wish to maintain a specific relationship type with.
    I never used the word only.

    The license is not a contract, it is permission to enter into a specific contract. The marriage is the contract, so performing a marriage without permission is criminal.

  3. #143
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post

    But the second part would still apply.

    North Carolina Gener
    al Statute 51
    -
    7 states: Every minister, officer, or any other person authorized to solemnize a marriage under the laws of this State, who marries any couple without a license being first delivered to that person, as required by law, or after the expiration of such license, or who fails to return such license to the register of deeds within 10 days after any marriage celebrated by virtue thereof, with the certificate appended thereto duly filled up and signed, shall forfeit and pay two hundred dollars ($200.00) to any person who sues therefore, and shall also be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #144
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I never used the word only.

    The license is not a contract, it is permission to enter into a specific contract. The marriage is the contract, so performing a marriage without permission is criminal.
    No. It is a contract. At one time in the past, it was a license. In reality, it a contract. It is unconstitutional to require a license to perform a harmless religious ceremony, and that is the point.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #145
    Guru
    WorldWatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,041

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But the second part would still apply.

    North Carolina Gener
    al Statute 51
    -
    7 states: “Every minister, officer, or any other person authorized to solemnize a marriage under the laws of this State, who marries any couple without a license being first delivered to that person, as required by law, or after the expiration of such license, or who fails to return such license to the register of deeds within 10 days after any marriage celebrated by virtue thereof, with the certificate appended thereto duly filled up and signed, shall forfeit and pay two hundred dollars ($200.00) to any person who sues therefore, and shall also be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.”

    51-7 is the penalty for violating 51-6.


    >>>>

  6. #146
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    51-7 is the penalty for violating 51-6.


    >>>>
    It is written as a violation all in itself. It says specifically that a person authorized to solemnize marriages in the state (basically any clergyman that is on the state's records as being able to sign marriage licenses) are not allowed to perform marriage ceremonies for any couple that does not have a license. That is the challenge being made. It specifically states "any couple".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #147
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    06-30-16 @ 07:32 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,309
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. It is a contract. At one time in the past, it was a license. In reality, it a contract. It is unconstitutional to require a license to perform a harmless religious ceremony, and that is the point.
    You're wrong. Simply having a marriage license doesn't allow the tax benefits allowed to married couples, create presumptive paternity, or confer any other benefits of marriage.

  8. #148
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    You're wrong. Simply having a marriage license doesn't allow the tax benefits allowed to married couples, create presumptive paternity, or confer any other benefits of marriage.
    It does once the signatures are put on it and it is filed with the state, just like any other contract, it has to be signed to be valid. You don't need an actual "ceremony", particularly not a religious one, to be married.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #149
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21,719

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is written as a violation all in itself. It says specifically that a person authorized to solemnize marriages in the state (basically any clergyman that is on the state's records as being able to sign marriage licenses) are not allowed to perform marriage ceremonies for any couple that does not have a license. That is the challenge being made. It specifically states "any couple".
    I agree with you. At the very least, the coordination between the two is a mess because 51-6 consistently refers to "man and woman" or "husband and wife" while in 51-7 (which doesn't refer directly to 51-6) that convention is dropped for the far broader "any couple," which obviously could cover SS couples. Further, the statutes clearly prohibit "Religious Marriages" (no license) for opposite sex couples, but the argument is that by being silent, and despite the fact that the penalty section refers to "any couple," such non-binding ceremonies without licenses are clearly LEGAL for SS couples.

    That could be the right answer, but getting there isn't straightforward to me at all. It looks like the kind of drafting sloppiness judges are asked to make sense of and clear up every day. Besides, the suit is a much broader challenge against the overall state bans against SSM - this is just one part of the suit.

  10. #150
    Sage
    mak2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Last Seen
    07-08-16 @ 01:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,050

    Re: Religious Group Files a Lawsuit Against North Carolina's Gay Marriage Ban

    I am a UCC member. I remember many many years ago our Pastor talking about wanting do the first SSM in Indiana. He is long since retired.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

Page 15 of 39 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •