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Thread: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

  1. #91
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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Its a factor but its not the only factor, I promise a global automotive company like Toyota isn't making decisions based on a single factor.
    Then explain this:

    For almost 50 years, the "Japanese Big 3" of Toyota, Honda and Nissan all head their headquarters in California.

    After Toyota goes, there will be none. Nissan left in 2005 for Tennessee, and Honda is finishing their move to Ohio.

    When you have this kind of exodus, to 3 different states, it is not the states that are attracting them, but the states they leave repelling them.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Then explain this:

    For almost 50 years, the "Japanese Big 3" of Toyota, Honda and Nissan all head their headquarters in California.

    After Toyota goes, there will be none. Nissan left in 2005 for Tennessee, and Honda is finishing their move to Ohio.

    When you have this kind of exodus, to 3 different states, it is not the states that are attracting them, but the states they leave repelling them.
    No question about it. Two manufacturers in our industry left California for Idaho. Both cited taxes and regulations for the move.

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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Non stop flight availability from Narita to DFW might have more to do with it. These aren't dock workers moving.
    The thing is Toyota's Japanese headquarters are located near Nagoya, not Tokyo. And this isn't GM, either. Toyota executives don't fly coach with the rest of the cattle into DFW:

    The global boss of Toyota, Akio Toyoda, arrived in Australia on a private jet () late on Sunday night so that he could deliver the news in person.

    Toyota’s Altona plant shutdown to hit 50,000 jobs | News.com.au
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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Then explain this:

    For almost 50 years, the "Japanese Big 3" of Toyota, Honda and Nissan all head their headquarters in California.

    After Toyota goes, there will be none. Nissan left in 2005 for Tennessee, and Honda is finishing their move to Ohio.

    When you have this kind of exodus, to 3 different states, it is not the states that are attracting them, but the states they leave repelling them.
    The first transplant in the U.S. was Volkswagen's UAW plant in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania. It proved to be a painful experience for VW that the Japanese didn't want to see repeated. So it's no accident that all of their plants are non-union and generally located in right-to-work states.
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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    The first transplant in the U.S. was Volkswagen's UAW plant in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania. It proved to be a painful experience for VW that the Japanese didn't want to see repeated. So it's no accident that all of their plants are non-union and generally located in right-to-work states.
    Actually, it is more like that is all their plants left.

    And actually, if you look at the history of labor relations, very few companies that were created Post-WWII are "union". Pretty much every company in the country (or founded since then) has learned that keeping their employees happy is of critical importance. The birth and spread of unions in this country was part of an era that is gone and part of history.

    Most companies involved in manufacturing today prefer to establish themselves in more rural areas, where costs are lower. And not just labor costs, but land costs, taxes, utilities, and everything else associated with creating and running a large facility. And most communities fight to get such plants, because of the huge boost in employment it gives them.

    But the unions stay out because businesses have learned over the decades how to keep their employees happy. Happy employees see no reason to unionize, it is the ones that feel like they are being taken advantage of that feel this need.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Actually, it is more like that is all their plants left.
    Left from where? To my knowledge, the Japanese have had only ONE UAW organized plant in a non-right-to-work state, and that was the Toyota joint venture with GM in Fremont, California. Toyota pulled out AFTER GM pulled the plug because the plant was a money loser.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    And actually, if you look at the history of labor relations, very few companies that were created Post-WWII are "union". Pretty much every company in the country (or founded since then) has learned that keeping their employees happy is of critical importance. The birth and spread of unions in this country was part of an era that is gone and part of history.
    I'm going to cry BS on this to some extent. "Downsizing" and "synergies" were words U.S. workers heard on a daily basis during the '80s and '90s. I think the decline of union representation has less to do with corporate executives turning over a new leaf on labor relations and more to do with right-to-work laws and the simple fact that U.S. manufacturers can churn out more goods with fewer workers due to increased productivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Most companies involved in manufacturing today prefer to establish themselves in more rural areas, where costs are lower. And not just labor costs, but land costs, taxes, utilities, and everything else associated with creating and running a large facility. And most communities fight to get such plants, because of the huge boost in employment it gives them.
    I'd say corporate managements that depend heavily on human labor prefer to establish themselves in right-to-work states where it's more difficult to establish a union. Cheap, abundant land and a good regulatory environment are also pluses. From the employee's standpoint, if you previously stuffed mattresses, plucked chickens, or sewed zippers and were paid by the piece, working for wages in a clean, modern manufacturing plant for better pay is an improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    But the unions stay out because businesses have learned over the decades how to keep their employees happy. Happy employees see no reason to unionize, it is the ones that feel like they are being taken advantage of that feel this need.
    I'm not sure it's a question so much of they're happy without unions. I think they just have come to the realization that capital flows downhill, like water. If they make too much of a fuss and join a union they might ruin a good (or better) thing than what they had previously. I also think there's a definite bias against unions in the South for various reasons. Honestly, I really can't see why anyone would be happy working for a wage that would put a full-time worker below the U.S. poverty level like we see in so many service industry jobs.
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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I'm not sure it's a question so much of they're happy without unions. I think they just have come to the realization that capital flows downhill, like water. If they make too much of a fuss and join a union they might ruin a good (or better) thing than what they had previously. I also think there's a definite bias against unions in the South for various reasons. Honestly, I really can't see why anyone would be happy working for a wage that would put a full-time worker below the U.S. poverty level like we see in so many service industry jobs.
    Yea, yea, we got it. You are a union hack who will say anything they do is awesome, and anything done that is not union sucks.

    Now tell us, what non-union auto assembly worker is living below the poverty line in the United States?

    See, here is the difference between us. You come in with lots of talk and propaganda, I come in with actual references. And those references say you are full of it.

    The average annual wage at Alabama's three auto assembly plants, including Hyundai, Honda and Mer*cedes- Benz, tops $54,400, according to data from the Center for Business and Economic Research at the University of Alabama.

    By contrast, the overall annual average wage in Alabama is $34,600.
    New jobs at Hyundai plant draw more than 22,000 applicants | AL.com

    And I knew people who were on the waiting list for those jobs, they were the highest paying ones in the region. And in a region where rent was in the $300 a month range.

    Now please explain to us (and give references) that show us how almost 100% above the local median income is "below the US poverty level".

    Oh, and manufacturing is not a service job, it is manufacturing, or industry. Service jobs are those like maid, sales clerk, waiter, and the like. Those are service jobs, auto assembly is not one of those.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Toyota Moving US Headquarters to Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Yea, yea, we got it. You are a union hack who will say anything they do is awesome, and anything done that is not union sucks.
    You were able to discern that because... ? Perhaps it's because I wrote that people who once stuffed mattresses or plucked chickens for a living might prefer working in an auto plant? Or perhaps it was because auto plants are moving to right-to-work states? What "facts" brought you to that conclusion, Corporal Oozlefinch? Either take off your Size 2 hat for a moment and think or FOAD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    See, here is the difference between us. You come in with lots of talk and propaganda, I come in with actual references. And those references say you are full of it.
    Right. Like your "references" that drew you to conclude I'm a union "hack." If you only knew the facts.

    Anyway, what, other than the union hack conclusion, do your references tell you? They tell me that people would rather build cars than tend catfish farms or peel shrimp for a living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Oh, and manufacturing is not a service job, it is manufacturing, or industry. Service jobs are those like maid, sales clerk, waiter, and the like. Those are service jobs, auto assembly is not one of those.
    Yes, I know. But you seemed to suggest that corporations in general turned over a new leaf in recent decades when it came to labor relations, resulting in the conclusion that unions are no longer necessary. I'm just pointing out that if that's the case then why are so many people struggling to make a living? Part of being nice is giving people other than yourself a raise, isn't it? I don't think the transplants coming into right-to-work states in the South pay more than shrimp processors out of benevolence. They do it because they can afford to due to higher levels of productivity and the desire to retain a trained and experienced workforce. It's just good business.
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