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Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

What I am talking about is the topic, which I addressed with you way back in #504 and you ignored that. Then in #507 I pointed out that VanceMack (or any other poster for that matter) really does not have to prove to you that there are other ways BLM could have handled this situation. It is just a fact that you were ignorant of. You were told this by several posters as well and the information has been covered extensively in the press. I dared ask why are you were unaware and unable to follow any of it at all? Or did it just have to be how VanceMack would himself have handled it?
So you butted in to a discussion that had nothing to do with you and failed to read the post I was responding to. Iow, you took what I said out of context and are now trying to make me defend your strawman. Got it.

My question remains Why? What does that matter in any way whatsoever? Because you have personal thing going with VanceMack? Apparently the answer is you have decided that asking such obvious questions is somehow trying to insult you, harass you, violate the rules of the forum. It's not addressing the topic and whatever else I guess you can gin up. So in that vein, yeah I know that we can see who edits posts. I was referring to your decision to delete your post about me supposedly violating the rules (again) but then my reply to it had already been posted. I was talking about your deletion of a whole post, not your editing existing ones. Which is perfectly obvious too, good try but sloppy and clumsy as all hell.
...and you still don't get it.


This has been about Bundy and how the BLM chose to operate in his case all along. Even while you tried to gin this all into me harassing you, insulting you and breaking the rules/trying to act like a moderator and other not so clever diversions. So I'm glad to see you are finally ready to get back on topic!
Well, "if you can't take the heat....."
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Obviously there is a deep, endemic problem in black America today with out-of-wedlock births, absentee fathers and disproportionate crime rates and welfare dependency. Nobody with a shred of intellectual honesty would dispute that. And I'm not pretending to have a cure-all for it, mostly because there isn't one. As with many of our ingrained problems, it will take a long time to solve and quite frankly, I'm not sure there's anyone out there with the ability or willingness to do it.

That said, his claim that blacks, as a whole, are "less free" than when they were wholly owned chattel is utterly ridiculous on an almost metaphysical level.
Actually he's right on the money. Blacks have simply exchanged one form of slavory for another.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

No, it's you who fail to understand or is it the Conservative mindset that some display, to spit at common sense. Again, who can anyone rationalize the belief that some people should live as human chattel?....don't you try to answer, you have failed too many times already. Give somebody more suitable a chance to make sense out of nonsense.

Let me give an equally stupid example like the rationale couch potato patriots attempt to use.


You know I really admire the knee-grows, the have gotten the right to vote and they have more jobs. They even own houses and have businesses. Those people have really gotten themselves together.

However I still think that they would be happier if I could put them all out at daybreak and have them pick my cotton. Theys family would stay together because theys could all work in the same field and theys chidrins would not have to go to skool and get learning, theys mammys and pappys could teach 'em how to be good cotton pickers.

Naw, nothing racist about that at all...
You wanted Wright's racist comments... of which you were obviously ignorant (and Farrakhan's ROTFLOL), and now you are equally ignorant about what Bundy stated.

You're off to a flying start here at DP. Congratulations.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

There is so much ignorance in his statement that if you fail to see it.... well......

You mean... showing respect for the work ethic of Mexicans, respect for how tight their families are, while lamenting the destruction of black America and the role government has had in it?

Sowell, Williams and Powell all have stated something similar. Obama even stated something along those lines once... to which Jackson stated he wanted to cut his nuts out.

The ignorance is all yours.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I think there is one thing we can all agree on. Bundy is not the best spokesperson for racial equality.

I don't even know why he was talking about race in the first place. What does that have to do with his cows and debt?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

So you butted in to a discussion that had nothing to do with you and failed to read the post I was responding to. Iow, you took what I said out of context and are now trying to make me defend your strawman. Got it.

...and you still don't get it.


Well, "if you can't take the heat....."
Actually I asked you asked a direct question and you just avoided it. For a really really long time. As well as flung in all the hyperbole about insults, harassment and supposed moderation to accentuate how desperatly angry obvious questions make you. But sure, jumping into a thread on a message board is "butting in" now. :lamo
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Actually he's right on the money. Blacks have simply exchanged one form of slavory for another.

That's insane. Being bought and sold on an open market, wholly owned by another human being, and being on welfare aren't even remotely in the same ballpark.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Actually I asked you asked a direct question and you just avoided it. For a really really long time. As well as flung in all the hyperbole about insults, harassment and supposed moderation to accentuate how desperatly angry obvious questions make you. But sure, jumping into a thread on a message board is "butting in" now. :lamo

You mean just like when I asked Vancemac to answer my question and you jumped all over me for even daring to ask? Now here you are demanding that I answer your question? Really? That's true hypocrisy in action. :lamo

Soo, if Vance doesn't have to answer my question then I see no reason why I should have to answer yours,... Filthy.

:cool:
 
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Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

You mean just like when I asked Vancemac to answer my question and you jumped all over me for even daring to ask? Now here you are demanding I that I answer your question? That's true hypocrisy in action. :lamo
No that's not what I mean at all, how did you ever manage to come to that conclusion? Probably the same way you came to the conclusion joining a thread is "butting in" and asking you a question is "jumping all over you". Same goes for attacking you, trying to moderate you and what else was it I was supposed to be doing? Oh yeah, harass you! :lamo At the end of the day, the answer is really that of course that regardless how VanceMack might care to handle the situation, BLM had other options they could have exercised. No idea why you were so invested in pretending otherwise, much less all the BS you tried repeatedly with your poor victim of evil harassment and insults filler material. Which is probably why you are now claiming I'm supposed to be acting hypocritically, only you don't really seem to understand what that word means. At this point I can't say I'm surprised.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Funny, aren't you missing something??...oh yeah. "The Negro would be better served as slaves picking cotton"...lol.
Right, nothing racist there..lol!!!
Funny as you already know I am not. And you know you are hearing only what you want to hear.
Not what was actually said or meant.

Content and context matter.
What he said was not racist.


…” and so what I’ve testified to ya’, I was in the WATTS riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them.

We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell.. talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro.

When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas; and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids…. and there was always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for the kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for the young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy – so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, uh they got less freedom – they got less family life, and their happiness -you could see it in their faces- they were not happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips – so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.



I'll chosen words to express himself? Sure.
But not racist, racial or even prejudiced.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know I understand that they come over here against our constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people – and I’ve worked side-by-side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structure than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people.

And we need to have those people join us and be with us…. not, not come to our party.
 
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Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I read a transcript of that first video, after listening to the same audio.

I still think the remarks were at the least unknowingly racist. Intentionally I'm not so sure about.

He assumes things about how black people live (and to a lesser extent, "Mexicans"). Due to those assumptions, he makes racist remarks that I suspect he doesn't even realize are racist.
He made no racist remark.
Show where anything said says he thinks his race is better than another. Can't do it can you?

He made no racist remark.


I'll chosen words to express himself? Sure.
But not racist, racial or even prejudiced.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Other than Bundy being an obvious jerk, he has a right to try and make the government honor a prior commitment, though not with armed resistance, maybe a demonstration.

Personally, I think Cliven should pay his grazing fees and take a class on civil rights. Though the government is a little ridiculous the way they used such a heavy handed method, and not to try and help ranchers more by lowering the cost of fees.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

No that's not what I mean at all, how did you ever manage to come to that conclusion? Probably the same way you came to the conclusion joining a thread is "butting in" and asking you a question is "jumping all over you". Same goes for attacking you, trying to moderate you and what else was it I was supposed to be doing? Oh yeah, harass you! :lamo At the end of the day, the answer is really that of course that regardless how VanceMack might care to handle the situation, BLM had other options they could have exercised. No idea why you were so invested in pretending otherwise, much less all the BS you tried repeatedly with your poor victim of evil harassment and insults filler material. Which is probably why you are now claiming I'm supposed to be acting hypocritically, only you don't really seem to understand what that word means. At this point I can't say I'm surprised.

What's the matter, can't you follow a stupid, irrelevant discussion...that you started? :lamo
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

What's the matter, can't you follow a stupid, irrelevant discussion...that you started? :lamo
Sure, just like joining a thread is "butting in" and asking you a question is "jumping all over you" pointing out that you don't understand what hypocrisy actually means, is because I can't follow a conversation! That I somehow am supposed to have "started" when you asked VanceMack your original meaningless question. Now asking you a question is supposed to mean I'm "demanding" you do something. Talk about over acting. You appear to be a delicately balanced jangle of raw nerves, perceiving persecution and attacks from perfectly common place events and questions in a forum made for that purpose. The heat in the kitchen and all that Moot. ;)
 
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Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Other than Bundy being an obvious jerk, he has a right to try and make the government honor a prior commitment, though not with armed resistance, maybe a demonstration.

Personally, I think Cliven should pay his grazing fees and take a class on civil rights. Though the government is a little ridiculous the way they used such a heavy handed method, and not to try and help ranchers more by lowering the cost of fees.

The fees are only a $1.35 per head of cattle. That's not too much to ask considering that cattle sell for over $1000 a head. No rancher or farmer would let another rancher graze his land for free, so why should the public that own the federal lands let Bundy graze his cows on their land for free?

I like your idea that he should take a Civil Rights class. But if Bundy doesn't believe in the federal government then he probably doesn't believe in the Emancipation Proclamation which means he probably doesn't believe in the Civil Rights Act either. And if the class is sponsored by the federal government, I don't think he'd show up, anyway. But it is fun to think about. lol
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

How did he get on this topic? I didn't get the before and after. Not that it matters but I'd like to know why he went there.

I wondered that, too. Nobody seems to have an answer.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

See...there ya go. I dont expect you to, and I dont give enough of a **** about your opinion to dig through 556 posts FOR you...so...here we are.

All you've said is that there were other options....you never said what they were or what you would do differently. I checked. So what are these mysterious other options that would have made Bundy either pay his grazing fees or remove his cattle? A lien isn't going to work for reasons I stated earlier to another poster, Tres.
 
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Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The fees are only a $1.35 per head of cattle. That's not too much to ask considering that cattle sell for over $1000 a head. No rancher or farmer would let another rancher graze his land for free, so why should the public that own the federal lands let Bundy graze his cows on their land for free?

Seen the cost of beef at the grocery store lately? The freaking gov wastes and takes enough of our money. And if it's public land, then give the grazing fee's back to the public.

I like your idea that he should take a Civil Rights class. But if Bundy doesn't believe in the federal government then he probably doesn't believe in the Emancipation Proclamation which means he probably doesn't believe in the Civil Rights Act either. And if the class is sponsored by the federal government, I don't think he'd show up, anyway. But it is fun to think about. lol

Yea, I agree he's a moron, and though he's shown little knowledge or sympathy for the plight of African Americans, according to our laws of free speech, he's allowed to say ignorant racist comments. I'm not a big fan of the way our Federal government lately is treating its citizens, as though we work for them and owe them something. They have no problem giving huge corporations subsidies and bailing out failing banks, insurance and car companies for hundreds of billions of tax payer dollars.

It seems like there's a war on the middle class from the Feds to the mega-corporations.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Sure, just like joining a thread is "butting in" and asking you a question is "jumping all over you" pointing out that you don't understand what hypocrisy actually means, is because I can't follow a conversation! That I somehow am supposed to have "started" when you asked VanceMack your original meaningless question. Now asking you a question is supposed to mean I'm "demanding" you do something. Talk about over acting. You appear to be a delicately balanced jangle of raw nerves, perceiving persecution and attacks from perfectly common place events and questions in a forum made for that purpose. The heat in the kitchen and all that Moot. ;)

You've been squealing and hollering at me for ignoring your post #504 for a little too long. That was the post you wanted me to respond to, wasn't it? I'm going to let you in on a little secret .......

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...omments-s-exactly-said-51.html#post1063204336

I think you owe me an apology. :lamo
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Was it off limits to grazing or off limits for the round up?

images

No, actually, it's how ranchers and BLM or Forest Service controlled herds to keep them in or out of certain areas. The use of aircraft is used for spotting strays and groups which have broken off from the herd, and those positions are radioed to people on horseback or ATV's who participate in roundups. It's much easier doing it that way than scouring vast countryside on horseback or vehicle.

But, if the BLM wishes to, they could erect fences to keep cattle out of areas that are not designated graze land, like the land that the desert turtle is using as it's habitat.

I have seen department of forest in NM fencing off land, and using gates to allow vehicles access in and out when cattle guards were not used, and they post signs stating when you're entering federal land. I don't have a photo of that, but I do have a photo of my jeep leaving federal land with fence and barbed wire.
 
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Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Funny as you already know I am not. And you know you are hearing only what you want to hear.
Not what was actually said or meant.

Content and context matter.
What he said was not racist.


…” and so what I’ve testified to ya’, I was in the WATTS riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them.

We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell.. talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro.

When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas; and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids…. and there was always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for the kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for the young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy – so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, uh they got less freedom – they got less family life, and their happiness -you could see it in their faces- they were not happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips – so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.



I'll chosen words to express himself? Sure.
But not racist, racial or even prejudiced.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know I understand that they come over here against our constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people – and I’ve worked side-by-side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structure than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people.

And we need to have those people join us and be with us…. not, not come to our party.

See the part I put in bold red;

This guy has a lot to talk about doesn't he? About government subsidies. I wonder how many times he's used government subsidies which are available to cattle ranchers? Isn't receiving cheap grazing from the government a subsidy in itself? Lord knows it's cheaper than buying feed for the 1000 head he owns.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Seen the cost of beef at the grocery store lately? The freaking gov wastes and takes enough of our money. And if it's public land, then give the grazing fee's back to the public.
Have you seen what it cost to stop an outbreak of e-coli or some other cow/beef related disease? The money to protect consumers and the beef industry has to come from somewhere.

Yea, I agree he's a moron, and though he's shown little knowledge or sympathy for the plight of African Americans, according to our laws of free speech, he's allowed to say ignorant racist comments. I'm not a big fan of the way our Federal government lately is treating its citizens, as though we work for them and owe them something. They have no problem giving huge corporations subsidies and bailing out failing banks, insurance and car companies for hundreds of billions of tax payer dollars.

It seems like there's a war on the middle class from the Feds to the mega-corporations.
I understand. Personally, I think we get the kind of government we deserve. The more corrupt the public is....the more corrupt the government is. So if people don't like their government....they can start by changing themselves and society...because that's where our government comes from. The government is the people or the people are the government. That's the way I look at it, anyway. May not be right...but it works for me.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

You've been squealing and hollering at me for ignoring your post #504 for a little too long. That was the post you wanted me to respond to, wasn't it? I'm going to let you in on a little secret .......

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...omments-s-exactly-said-51.html#post1063204336

I think you owe me an apology. :lamo
Now you are adding "screaming and hollering" to the list of your deductions? Such as joining a thread is "butting in" and asking a question is "attacking" and "insulting" you or trying to "moderate you" in rule breaking fashion. :screwy Your persecution complex is quite a raging one huh? Don't let the lack of any screaming or ALL CAP rants prevent you from acting otherwise now do you? Is it just a nervous condition or a pathology that you just pretend you don't know you are acting out?:confused:
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Have you seen what it cost to stop an outbreak of e-coli or some other cow/beef related disease? The money to protect consumers and the beef industry has to come from somewhere.

I understand. Personally, I think we get the kind of government we deserve. The more corrupt the public is....the more corrupt the government is. So if people don't like their government....they can start by changing themselves and society...because that's where our government comes from. The government is the people or the people are the government. That's the way I look at it, anyway. May not be right...but it works for me.

Hey, I criticize our elected officials but they're still the best leadership money can buy. Seriously, our system isn't that broken or we wouldn't be the envy of the world.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

No, actually, it's how ranchers and BLM or Forest Service controlled herds to keep them in or out of certain areas. The use of aircraft is used for spotting strays and groups which have broken off from the herd, and those positions are radioed to people on horseback or ATV's who participate in roundups. It's much easier doing it that way than scouring vast countryside on horseback or vehicle.

But, if the BLM wishes to, they could erect fences to keep cattle out of areas that are not designated graze land, like the land that the desert turtle is using as it's habitat.

I have seen department of forest in NM fencing off land, and using gates to allow vehicles access in and out when cattle guards were not used, and they post signs stating when you're entering federal land. I don't have a photo of that, but I do have a photo of my jeep leaving federal land with fence and barbed wire.

I'm by no means an expert on turtles but as I understand it the endangered turtles in question actually eat cow dung. I know, eww. So its not a question of letting cows graze at all on the land, but rather limiting the number of cows to prevent land degradation that turtles live on and to prevent over grazing. Fences.....how do we know there aren't fences already and Bundy just lets them out when he rounds up a few head for auction? His cows are branded.
 
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