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Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

This legal dispute started under the first Bush dude, and it hasn't been resolved since so lets not forget to include Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama as so pathetic they can't resolve a debt collection from a single citizen.

And lets not forget that the BLM did round up a lot of Bundy's cattle for the purpose of reselling them to pay his debt but the fanatics guarding him were prepared to act violently even placing women in the line of fire by using them as human shields, need I post that video again? And police decided that it wasn't worth another Waco, Texas to obtain a bunch of cattle and settle the debt.

There's some facts for you.

What about the fact the NYT took a quote out of contect to tried and destroy the guy with this scummy move.

Does it bother you? Isn't it more vile than what Bundy was supposedly accused of saying?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I believe the RW position is that the government unlawfully sprang upon an American citizn with and unauthorized para-military unit, spent 2 million dollars+ in the process and STILL didn't recover the money.

Still waiting to hear what was unlawful, cite which laws they broke by trying to get the deadbeat lawbreaker to pay up.
 
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Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Still waiting to hear what was unlawful, cite which laws they broke by trying to get the deadbeat lawbreaker to pay up.
I think the disconnect here is between:
Bundy and reality.
Bundy and the "militia".

See, Bundy doesn't realize or recognize the laws he broke.

And the militia people disagree with the laws so much that they are apparently willing to resist by using human shields
Although I personally suspect that was just one insane nutbag (NOT Bundy, in this case) and a few buddy's "strategizing" (to paraphrase the clip I saw) about how they would resist.

I mean, they can't ALL be that insane, right? Right?!?


And I also suspect that Bundy was kinda just along for the ride after the "militia" showed up.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The debt is up to a million dollars, its not exactly much to the entire Federal government but its not exactly chump change either for a single fairly unweathly person to ring up either. Also a lot of law involves costs which would outweigh the benefit, and sometimes thats a good point, however the extra cost in this case was brought about due to the "Patriot movement" guys showing up. Now its more than a issue of unpaid fees its an issue of whether or not it will become acceptable to use the threat of force, the use of human shields, and the like to avoid paying one's dues to the government for breaking the law. I mean its hard to put a monetary value on the damage that would be done if we simply let these people get away with this, its practically armed rebellion at this point.

Now I don't know exactly why the local Sheriff, who by the way is a city not a Federal employee or even a state employee but who happened to be working with the Feds, decided it was too risky to continue holding this cattle but whats clear is that he thought that the risk was too great that it compelled law enforcement to retreat. If you as a criminal become enough of a threat that you can compel law enforcement to retreat, where you can match them force-to-force I think it almost always for the sake of the rule of law that you be brought down one way or another.

Shoot what if this was a gang that had taken over several city blocks and managed to somehow amass enough firepower and manpower to compel the police to retreat? Would you be ok if the police just left them there as is?
If it was an inner city gang you and your ilk wouldnt say a ****ing thing about it and neither would the administration.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

If it was an inner city gang you and your ilk wouldnt say a ****ing thing about it and neither would the administration.

I asked if you'd find it acceptable if the police just left it as in and backed off because the financial cost was too great to take back that part of the city.

You dodged that question and threw a tantrum instead.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

If it was an inner city gang you and your ilk wouldnt say a ****ing thing about it and neither would the administration.

Oh please. Argument by Hypothetical is a pretty lame tactic, especially a hypothetical that asinine.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

What about the fact the NYT took a quote out of contect to tried and destroy the guy with this scummy move.

Does it bother you? Isn't it more vile than what Bundy was supposedly accused of saying?

Again, I've read the ENTIRE interview, even in context its racist. I haven't read one news story covering this that didn't acknowledge the racism of the remark. Not only the times.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Again, I've read the ENTIRE interview, even in context its racist. I haven't read one news story covering this that didn't acknowledge the racism of the remark. Not only the times.
I haven't read any news stories about it, but I can see how easy it would be to edit out a few paragraphs and make it seem ridiculously racist rather than mildly so.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I haven't read any news stories about it, but I can see how easy it would be to edit out a few paragraphs and make it seem ridiculously racist rather than mildly so.

CLIVE BUNDY HOAX EXPOSED: Cliven Bundy is NOT a RACIST ! - YouTube

I had trouble finding a full video, but this starts well before the infamous remark. Even though this is a video meant to clear him of racism, you can judge for yourself. I find it offensive to propose slavery is good for anyone
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I asked if you'd find it acceptable if the police just left it as in and backed off because the financial cost was too great to take back that part of the city.

You dodged that question and threw a tantrum instead.
No tantrum...absolute fact. You offered a fantasy scenario. Plain and simple fact is that if it involves inner city gangs you wouldnt say **** about it, this administration wouldnt do anything about it, and IF they sent in an armed response you would be ****ting yourself over the inappropriate nature of the response.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Oh please. Argument by Hypothetical is a pretty lame tactic, especially a hypothetical that asinine.
:lamo

You GET that what was PROPOSED was a hypothetical...right?

FM
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

No tantrum...absolute fact. You offered a fantasy scenario. Plain and simple fact is that if it involves inner city gangs you wouldnt say **** about it, this administration wouldnt do anything about it, and IF they sent in an armed response you would be ****ting yourself over the inappropriate nature of the response.

You still haven't said what you'd do about it. So I'm just going to assume like any reasonable person you'd want the police to restore law and order, as would I, so why shouldn't the police enforce the law and restore law and order the area surrounding and including Cliven Bundy's ranch?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

CLIVE BUNDY HOAX EXPOSED: Cliven Bundy is NOT a RACIST ! - YouTube

I had trouble finding a full video, but this starts well before the infamous remark. Even though this is a video meant to clear him of racism, you can judge for yourself. I find it offensive to propose slavery is good for anyone
To clarify.

I have not read a news article about the statements of Bundy, but I HAVE heard what I believe is the full audio/video, and I have also read a transcript of same.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

:lamo

You GET that what was PROPOSED was a hypothetical...right?

FM
He just said he did.

In the post you responded to.

Just now.

Right there.

No, you missed it, it was just then.
 
re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’[W:696]

Is it rational for someone to desire that a confrontation has to end in a fight?

The BLM would have started the fight.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The BLM would have started the fight.

Well, some would call these supporters of Bundy armed domestic terrorists who use the threat of illegal violence to reach an objective. An objective they would have been willing to sacrifice women for if they would have gotten into an armed conflict with the BLM and the legal representatives of the people who were carrying out the decisions from the lawsuit the government won against a man who has been grazing his cattle illegally and reaping the financial benefits from his illegal actions.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

gotcha. You are on the record now as saying you believe this was their only option, and the administration is so completely inept that they even ****ed up handling a basic debt collection. :lamo

What did the Bush administration do about Bundy? Imo, it just looks like another mopping up left by Obama's predecessors.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

If anything, it's been the militia groups who have come to Bundy's aid who have tried to escalate the violence just to gain attention much like Waco, TX or Ruby Ridge several years ago. And please, don't get me wrong. IMO, the government was wrong in both cases because the agents involved used poor judgment and excessive force even though the law was on their side. But in this case, I'd say the BLM & FBI have both used good judgment and restraint. Yet, at every turn it appears they're being provoked to strike first blood.

Bundy should just give up while he still can.

What was the "excessive force" used by the BLM? Was it the guy who kicked the police dog and got tased in return? Or was it the rocks that the protestors were threatening to throw that the BLM guys? Or was it the closing off of a dirt road on federal land so they could round up the cows and take them to auction? As far as I can tell the BLM didn't go to seeking out the militia for a confrontation....it was Bundy and his militia pals who wanted a confrontation. They even dressed for the occasion.


So what was the 'excessive force' some people keep claiming occurred?
 
re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’[W:696]

The BLM would have started the fight.

You said what the BLM did was unlawful.

I'm waiting for you to cite what laws they were in violation of, the actual laws, not just your opinion.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I had a feeling Bundy was going to say something outrageously stupid,anyone that hailed him as a hero should be raked over the coals.Having said that,the whole issue over his grazing cattle has always been for me about the way BLM handled the cattle round-up and not Bundy himself.

So you think the Govts. actions had nothing to do with Bundy? The Fed "overkill" as you probably describe it comes from a history of dealing with members of similar groups with similar beliefs like Timothy McVeigh or Randy Weaver.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

So you think the Govts. actions had nothing to do with Bundy? The Fed "overkill" as you probably describe it comes from a history of dealing with members of similar groups with similar beliefs like Timothy McVeigh or Randy Weaver.

Not just with these kinds of things, I saw that SWAT teams are being used way more than in the past and I think it is totally understandable. Some people in the US have huge stockpiles of weapons and if you want to do your job safely it is best to go in with full force and be happy when everybody, and yes that also includes the suspects, walks out alive rather than not go in full force and have several officers dead or wounded (with a possible escape and crime/murder spree from the person that should have been arrested).
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

What did the Bush administration do about Bundy? Imo, it just looks like another mopping up left by Obama's predecessors.
What did the Clinton administration do? Since...you know...thats when it started

You are embarrassing yourself yet again.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

You still haven't said what you'd do about it. So I'm just going to assume like any reasonable person you'd want the police to restore law and order, as would I, so why shouldn't the police enforce the law and restore law and order the area surrounding and including Cliven Bundy's ranch?
You want to keep pressing your fairy tale hypothetical scenario? Your like minded buddies here apparently think your hypothetical posings are rather...whats the word they used...lame.

Try a realistic scenario, since you and I both know quite clearly that if in your hypothetical musing the conflict involved inner city gangs this would never have come to light, you would have never said a word about it, and the administration would have ignored it. And since you already know my opinion on what they did as a means of debt collection, what makes you think I would feel any differently about collecting a debt from inner city gangs?

Its really rather pathetic that you STILL believe that sending in an army of people to collect a debt was the right thing to do and gosh...really...it was their only option. Its especially embarrassing that you support the administration playing what you believe to be their ONLY card and getting turned out and made to look like little bitches. How did that debt collection thing work out again? How much did it cost the taxpayers to NOT collect the debt?
 
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