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Thread: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

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    Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That really isn't something you can prove.
    So bs.
    Sure it is, have a candidate you support use that word and see how far he gets in getting elected. Sure fire way to prove it, however, noone in their right mind would do that because they know MOST PEOPLE find it offensive. It's common sense man.

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    Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Ok you are an extremist as well.
    Your claim is ridiculous in light of what he explained he meant.
    Being poor at expressing himself, and ignorant of the subject material does not make one an idiot.
    Yes, I must be an extremist because I don't agree with you. Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than you, they must be an extremist.

    Sorry but he is an idiot, you want to support him fine. go for it.

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    Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

    [QUOTE=apdst;1063198063]
    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Are you saying you think the blacks were happier as slaves?

    Are you saying the projects are a significant improvement?
    Are you saying all/most black people live in the projects?

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    Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes, I must be an extremist because I don't agree with you.
    You are an extremest because what he said does not equate to being an idiot which you want to continue to call him.
    That is on you, not me.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    He made several faulty assumptions which led to his (possibly) unknowingly racist remarks about "the negro".
    He made no racist statement.
    He spoke of concern.
    Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance of.
    You are making a false accusation.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    My main quibble is his apparent viewpoint - namely that he spoke of black persons as a whole rather than individuals. Granted people do that all the time, but I dislike it.

    He spoke of those in the welfare state.
    So that is you assuming he is speaking of all, rather than those specifically involved with welfare.
    The error is again on your end.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    My second quibble is that he apparently doesn't realize how idiotic comparing any form of life to a life of slavery is. Even if black persons somehow are worse off now in terms of culture, family, and so forth, at least they're not slaves. For ****s sake. To say such a thing shows either a near-total lack of historical knowledge....or some crazy kind of stereotype about black persons wherein being enslaved is somehow acceptable to them...or something else, I dunno.
    And again, refer to his explanation. He was referring to specifics under slavery. He though of the family unit as it existed. (in some cases)
    And if you think the only thing that happened was like that of "twelve years a slave", you would be mistaken.

    Regardless, he was still speaking of concern.
    Not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    My third quibble was his choice of words. Not much of one, because it seems to me that he doesn't realize many persons stopped using "the negro", "colored people", "negroes", and so forth as words to describe black persons awhile ago. I'm not someone who subscribes to the notion that only politically correct words should be used, but....
    Actually this ties in with quibble #1 - he used the term "the negro" as if he were speaking of a single entity.
    I dislike that.

    ----------------

    I don't think he knows he's slightly racist/bigoted. Or at the least he has stereotypes and uses them as reality.

    As I have said before.

    He's racist.
    But unknowingly so.
    Because stupid.
    And it can be seen that you are wrong. Racists do not express concern.
    They disparage and express hatred and intolerance. He did not do those things.
    All you have is he used a word that is antiquated. But he didn't use it in a way to disparage, so you should have enough common sense to understand and raise above your own bigotry and recognize that.
    But I am sure you wont.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You are an extremest because what he said does not equate to being an idiot which you want to continue to call him.
    That is on you, not me.
    No it is my opinion. If I were an extremist I would say he was a racist. I didn't. So that is on you, not me. You think anyone that disagrees with you is an extremist. That IS idiotic on your part.

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    Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    He made no racist statement.
    He spoke of concern.
    Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance of.
    You are making a false accusation.
    I viewed his narrative about black persons as disparaging. Matter of opinion I suppose. And I think that he did not intend it as such - only his unwitting stereotypical view of things got in the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    He spoke of those in the welfare state.
    So that is you assuming he is speaking of all, rather than those specifically involved with welfare.
    The error is again on your end.
    When someone uses the term/phrase "the negro", it sure as hell sounds to me as if he's referring to all black people. What, only black people on welfare get to be called "the negro"?, now? How is that fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And again, refer to his explanation. He was referring to specifics under slavery. He though of the family unit as it existed. (in some cases)
    And if you think the only thing that happened was like that of "twelve years a slave", you would be mistaken.

    Regardless, he was still speaking of concern.
    Not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.
    I would tend to agree.

    As I said, his comments make me think one of two things are likely:

    1. He has an appalling lack of knowledge, partially of history, partially of present, which led him to compare current conditions to conditions during slavery, and not instantly dismiss it as a reasonable comparison.
    2. He actually thinks slavery would be better for black persons.


    As I see it, this means he was either unintentionally racist, or intentionally racist, with the former being most likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And it can be seen that you are wrong. Racists do not express concern.
    They disparage and express hatred and intolerance. He did not do those things.
    All you have is he used a word that is antiquated. But he didn't use it in a way to disparage, so you should have enough common sense to understand and raise above your own bigotry and recognize that.
    But I am sure you wont.
    As I said, I think he's unknowingly racist.

    As in, he doesn't realize that what he's saying is racist.

    His word use was indeed antiquated in PC terms (in the past it WAS acceptable to use the term "negro"), yet it was not his word choice that I found unacceptable. It was how he used it.

    It appeared disparaging to me.

    But again, that's just my take on some words which only one person knows the true context of.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Yes, pointing out that he was wrong is coming to ones senses. Now all you have to do is do the same.

    His comments were not racist.
    Fine I will, do you have the intelligence to comprehend it or the intellectual integrity to admit when I prove you wrong?

    Your listed definition of racism: Racism
    rac·ism

    noun

    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

    Chattel slavery

    Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of an owner and are bought and sold as if they were commodities. It is the original form of slavery and the least prevalent form of slavery today.


    After 1640, planters started to ignore the expiration of indentured contracts and kept their servants as slaves for life. This was demonstrated by the case Johnson v. Parker where the court ruled that John Casor, an indentured servant, be returned to Johnson who claimed that Casor belonged to him for his life
    Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Abraham Lincoln expressed this idea in one of his famous 1858 debates with Senator Stephen Douglas: “[T]here is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
    Ten Reasons Not to Abolish Slavery : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

    In 1677, Dr.
    William Petty declared that savage people were the direct link between Caucasians and the apes. The
    chain provided an excellent justification to slavery: savage people, such as Africans, were inferior
    and were put on the earth to serve the superior Europeans
    (McCaskell, 1).
    From your posted definition:
    the right to rule others
    http://pat.tamu.edu/journal/vol-1/thompson.pdf


    Now, it's common knowledge attained from every elementary school in this country that the following are staples of American chattel slavery.

    The overwhelming race of slave masters were white.
    The overwhelming race of overseers were white.
    The overwhelming race of runaway slave catchers were white.
    The overwhelming belief was that Blacks were morally, intellectually and spiritually inferior to whites.
    The overwhelming belief was that the role of Blacks as inferior and therefore naturally fitted to the role as chattel to whites was scientifically and morally correct.

    Now a White man wonders if Black people were better off as slaves picking cotton. Are you suggesting that this man is so ignorant that he isn't aware of the ideology and beliefs that allowed slavery to exist in this country??..of course he isn't that ignorant.

    Blacks returning to slavery would require that someone knows what's best for them and is better qualified to run their lives, those persons would be White people and that's racist.

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    Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

    [QUOTE=year2late;1063209503]
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    Are you saying all/most black people live in the projects?
    Is that what I said? It's not, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

    Quote Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
    Fine I will, do you have the intelligence to comprehend it or the intellectual integrity to admit when I prove you wrong?

    Your listed definition of racism: Racism
    rac·ism

    noun

    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

    Chattel slavery

    Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of an owner and are bought and sold as if they were commodities. It is the original form of slavery and the least prevalent form of slavery today.


    After 1640, planters started to ignore the expiration of indentured contracts and kept their servants as slaves for life. This was demonstrated by the case Johnson v. Parker where the court ruled that John Casor, an indentured servant, be returned to Johnson who claimed that Casor belonged to him for his life
    Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Abraham Lincoln expressed this idea in one of his famous 1858 debates with Senator Stephen Douglas: “[T]here is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
    Ten Reasons Not to Abolish Slavery : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

    In 1677, Dr.
    William Petty declared that savage people were the direct link between Caucasians and the apes. The
    chain provided an excellent justification to slavery: savage people, such as Africans, were inferior
    and were put on the earth to serve the superior Europeans
    (McCaskell, 1).
    From your posted definition:
    http://pat.tamu.edu/journal/vol-1/thompson.pdf


    Now, it's common knowledge attained from every elementary school in this country that the following are staples of American chattel slavery.

    The overwhelming race of slave masters were white.
    The overwhelming race of overseers were white.
    The overwhelming race of runaway slave catchers were white.
    The overwhelming belief was that Blacks were morally, intellectually and spiritually inferior to whites.
    The overwhelming belief was that the role of Blacks as inferior and therefore naturally fitted to the role as chattel to whites was scientifically and morally correct.

    Now a White man wonders if Black people were better off as slaves picking cotton. Are you suggesting that this man is so ignorant that he isn't aware of the ideology and beliefs that allowed slavery to exist in this country??..of course he isn't that ignorant.

    Blacks returning to slavery would require that someone knows what's best for them and is better qualified to run their lives, those persons would be White people and that's racist.
    Well said reconmark.
    Unfortunately no matter how well reasoned, intelligent, well researched and sensible you present your argument ... Excon will just keep saying " no it's not."
    Don't mind him ...it's what he does.
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 04-28-14 at 11:38 PM.

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