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Thread: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

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    A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    From CNN:

    At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, many of whom were placed on a secret waiting list.

    The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.
    A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list - CNN.com

    IMO, this is an outrageous and unconscionable crime. The management of this system and al others who participated in the scheme should be held accountable for the 40 deaths. Any managers who are members of the Military, should be dishonorably discharged in addition to being held criminally responsible. No person, much less veterans who put their lives at risk for the nation, ever deserved to be treated in such a callous fashion.

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:

    A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list - CNN.com

    IMO, this is an outrageous and unconscionable crime. The management of this system and al others who participated in the scheme should be held accountable for the 40 deaths. Any managers who are members of the Military, should be dishonorably discharged in addition to being held criminally responsible. No person, much less veterans who put their lives at risk for the nation, ever deserved to be treated in such a callous fashion.
    People used to tell me that I didn't know how awesome I had it, being in the military, since I had government care. I am almost completely unsurprised by this.

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    This is why I have a separate insurance policy and have civilian doctors. I would be one of those dead veterans if I waited for the VA and didn't have my private health care sources.

    Government run anything, especially health care, is doomed to fail at some point, or at the very least, cause as much or more harm than any good hoped for at its inception.
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:



    A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list - CNN.com

    IMO, this is an outrageous and unconscionable crime. The management of this system and al others who participated in the scheme should be held accountable for the 40 deaths. Any managers who are members of the Military, should be dishonorably discharged in addition to being held criminally responsible. No person, much less veterans who put their lives at risk for the nation, ever deserved to be treated in such a callous fashion.
    Horrible....Isn't this sort of what single payer is?
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Horrible....Isn't this sort of what single payer is?
    More like single non-payer it would seem.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    More like single non-payer it would seem.
    No doubt. But the VA system IS government run health care....Our future looks bright doesn't it?
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No doubt. But the VA system IS government run health care....Our future looks bright doesn't it?
    Absolutely - what could be better managed than a federal gov't program?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Disgusting. Even before I read this, I thought poorly of how military personnel are treated. I can't imagine having such disregard for veterans.

    The Phoenix VA Health Care System is committed to delivering the highest quality care to Veterans. We have conducted robust internal reviews since these allegations surfaced and welcome the results from the Office of Inspector General's review. We take these allegations seriously.

    We acknowledge Phoenix VA Health Care System has had longstanding issues with Veterans accessing care and have taken numerous actions to meet demand, while we continue to serve more Veterans and enhance our services . To ensure new Veterans waiting for appointments are managed appropriately, we maintain an Electronic Wait List (EWL) in accordance with the national VHA Scheduling Directive.

    The ability of new and established patients to get more timely care has showed significant improvement in the last two years which is attributable to increased budget, staffing, efficiency and infrastructure. We continue to make improvements to further reduce wait times for Veterans. Veterans who have concerns about their care, should call the Patient Advocate at 602-277-5551, ext. 6171 or 6172.

    Phoenix VA Health Care System cares deeply for every Veteran we are privileged to serve. As we continue to improve, we focus our work on Veterans to keep true to VA's mission.
    VA spokesman responds to CNN Investigations report - CNN.com

    This anemic response demonstrates a distinct lack of regard. It's subtle. They go into almost no detail of the so called investigation. I doubt anything will come of it.
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Horrible....Isn't this sort of what single payer is?
    No, it is not.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    I find it dishonest how some view certain groups trying to coverup things up and claim that this is how exactly the entire program works. Guess what? People in the civilian world can't even get on some lists at all because they can't afford it. They don't have the money to pay for it and they still don't have insurance for any number of reasons. This is an issue but certainly not the norm. I've been under military medicine for a large portion of my life and was able to get many appointments pretty quickly. They even pointed out a problem with my knee when they were checking my leg for why I had pain lower down. And no, this isn't right, but it also isn't something that can be blamed on the system really, but rather on the nature of people and the pressure put on these hospitals to operate seeing more people with less resources and higher expectations that are simply not completely reasonable under the circumstances. It isn't an excuse for this horrible list (those responsible should be fired), but it is a reason why we would see such a thing.

    And this would be different if we had an NHC system because vets could easily choose to go to either a VA hospital or a hospital closer because they wouldn't have to worry about not being able to pay for it. And civilian hospitals/doctors face some of these same exact problems, including long wait times and even turning people away.

    In cities, the average doctor wait-time is 18.5 days

    But also there are many things that occur in the civilian medical system as well that would be similar to this and yet never brought to light like this is here because they are under less scrutiny (far less) than military systems.

    How would any of you suggest this change and would that change realistically "save" people? Because if you know of a way to fix it so this doesn't happen but where veterans are still able to receive quality healthcare without completely breaking the federal or state coffers, please tell us all that plan. Perhaps we can push to get that put into place.

    No system is immune from human failings and errors, greed or incompetence. Whether it is publicly run or privately.
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