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Thread: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:



    A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list - CNN.com

    IMO, this is an outrageous and unconscionable crime. The management of this system and al others who participated in the scheme should be held accountable for the 40 deaths. Any managers who are members of the Military, should be dishonorably discharged in addition to being held criminally responsible. No person, much less veterans who put their lives at risk for the nation, ever deserved to be treated in such a callous fashion.
    This is the inevitable result of having high demand for services and low supply. What are the local managers supposed to do? They have a budget that they don't set themselves, they have demand for services that they have no control over. Long waiting times are inevitable. They can't ration care so they do the only thing they can do -- extend waiting times. That people die waiting for care is a predictable result.

    Patients are flooding into VA centers all over the country as they lose private insurance or find it too expensive. The demand for services has skyrocketed, but adjustments in care supply move at a glacial pace, as is the case in any government operation.

    If you like this you're gonna love Obamacare when it's fully implemented. Small numbers of health care providers in networks will mean long waiting times and the same results. Single payer is the same way wherever it has been tried: Canada - long waiting times; Great Britain - long waiting times. And OF COURSE people die waiting.

    This is what we have gotten ourselves into.

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    What are the local managers supposed to do?
    For starters:

    First, don't hide the realities. From the CNN article:

    There's an "official" list that's shared with officials in Washington and shows the VA has been providing timely appointments, which Foote calls a sham list. And then there's the real list that's hidden from outsiders, where wait times can last more than a year.

    That's fraud. The deception was deliberate and a matter of choice. The managers should be held fully accountable for the consequences of their actions, including but not limited to the deaths of the 40 persons that resulted from their practices.

    Second, have the courage to raise resource-related issues to the Secretary of Defense, if necessary. The Secretary is not omniscient. If problems are not brought to his attention, there's no assurance he will learn about them. Former Secretary of Defense Gates responded decisively when he learned of outpatient problems at Walter Reed. These problems are even worse, as they resulted in deaths, deaths that should not have happened.

    Third, if they believed they were in a position that was untenable and irrevocably beyond their control, have the ethics to resign.

    Those managers did not resign. There is no evidence to date that they tried to reach the Defense Secretary. They made deliberate and knowing choices. They should be held wholly accountable for the consequences of their purposeful decisions.

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    First off, this is disgusting and no way to treat veterans.

    Second, blaming government is lazy and as easy scapegoat.

    World Health Organization ranking of health systems in 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider

    I didn't carefully check every single country but most or all of them are strongly run by the government and they are all better than the U.S.

    Our healthcare is a disgrace and it needs overhauled badly. I think its quite likely we need to be more like these other countries, because what we've been doing obviously isn't working.
    "Trump voters will let Donald crap in their mouths if it meant the liberal next to them had to smell it"

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Perhaps some right wing military supporters, and lefties as well though I think most of us already do, should contact their Congresscritters and demand less money go to mercs and contractors like Xe and Halliburton and more on our troops and their long lasting medical and financial support both during and after their service.
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    People used to tell me that I didn't know how awesome I had it, being in the military, since I had government care. I am almost completely unsurprised by this.
    Seriously - this a million times over.

    My husband is avoiding the VA at all costs because their healthcare is total, utter crap.
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.
    And with that we accept a conspiracy theory?

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Have you looked into Scott AFB in IL outside of Belleville--it is a medical field.
    There is a great VA hospital in Iowa City, IA--related to the Univ. of Iowa.
    As well, the Vet's Home in Quincy, IL is associated with Blessing Hospital, an outstanding facility.
    Quincy is the 4th oldest VH in the Nation, 205 acres.
    There is a wide range of Veterans living there, physically and mentally, including their spouses, and several dozen female Vets .
    Quincy is across from Hannibal and not that far from Arkansas .
    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Seriously - this a million times over.

    My husband is avoiding the VA at all costs because their healthcare is total, utter crap.
    Physics is Phun

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Have you looked into Scott AFB in IL outside of Belleville--it is a medical field.
    There is a great VA hospital in Iowa City, IA--related to the Univ. of Iowa.
    As well, the Vet's Home in Quincy, IL is associated with Blessing Hospital, an outstanding facility.
    Quincy is the 4th oldest VH in the Nation, 205 acres.
    There is a wide range of Veterans living there, physically and mentally, including their spouses, and several dozen female Vets .
    Quincy is across from Hannibal and not that far from Arkansas .
    Yes, SOME places are stellar. The new NICOE (National Intrepid Center of Excellence) unit that they built to replace part of the horrid, old Walter Reed just outside of DC is state of the art - each service member can easily run a ticket of over a million dollars for one month of treatment, as my husband did.

    Oddly - after a million dollar work-over month, when he was relocated to Texas and then Oklahoma (note: he was not permitted to come home for over a year of 'treatment'), each new location redid as many of those same high-tech tests as they could because a month in a high tech facility with a team of 8 doctors tending to him wasn't 'good enough' and they 'had to be sure' (and they were sure - after over a year of re-examining everything that was already examined, they determined the tertiary tests all produced the same results).

    Due to the horrendous state of the military health-care system of inabilities in the last seven years I'm certain my husband's health-care costs have shot to well over 3 million.

    The military itself doesn't see these qualified facilities as being worth a crap once you leave the area and travel elsewhere.

    Further, the average soldier is not stationed in these FEW places that are worth a crap. You are permitted to go where you are permitted to go. You must receive permission to receive care at some of these high quality facilities. It took over a year of permissions and grants to get my husband into NICOE - it was supposed to answer all our issues, but it did relatively little due to how few doctors after that gave any weight to the results. The effort to get him into the NICOE unit was monumental and only made possible by the personal sacrifices of over 15 people who were on active duty and worked along side my husband - he was active duty at that time and over the following two years he was able to eventually retire out per medical (thus: being a veteran happened after NICOE, just to clarify)

    In order for my husband to receive various forms of care he was shipped around to everywhere but home. Yet, the average VA soldier lives at home - and their VA is far away, they don't have an army of people to fight for them as my husband did. Their VA's are often in old, run down buildings like the one in Arkansas which is at Ft Roots. Fort Roots was established in the early 1800's and was transferred to a medical care facility in limited nature in the 1920's.

    It hasn't seen renovation or improvement in decades.

    So - until the military health-care system gets it's multi-billion dollar ass together, it's worthless to the average veteran.

    I cannot imagine an elderly veteran being able to hack what my husband and I had to deal with in order to make his health-care possible. No way - anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 04-24-14 at 01:43 AM.
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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Hines VA in Maywood, IL and its associated Loyola Hospital were at standing room only
    in early 2009 when my Dad sat in a wheelchair for 3 weeks in a hallway.

    He only had Alzheimer's and was pocketing food,
    nothing compared to the very grave cases coming back from the Middle East.

    Frankly, I'm surprised that the VA has kept their heads.

    I pretty much took Dad and Mom to sickcall for 40 years after he retired at JAAP/APSA after Scott field.
    I'm very grateful for everything Dad received from the VA/military in all wayssince he retired .
    Physics is Phun

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    re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    When we lived in Syracuse, the VA hospital was top notch. The best we've seen.

    When we moved to Alabama, it went in the opposite direction. My husband is a heart patient, and it took 5 months to get a cardiologist appointment. The Syracuse VA sent word with my husband, and also put on his chart, that he was to be seen immediately, because of his heart. They still waited 5 months.

    We got tired of the BS and went with Tricare Prime. It's not free - we have to pay for it every month. But the premiums are a pittance and we get to choose our doctor, and yes they can be civilian. So worth it.
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