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Thread: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'm not making any excuses here. I am giving reasoning for how to (hopefully) reduce the risk of it happening again, if the government actually realized why it happened, rather than simply react to it.

    And nowhere have I said this case should not be investigated nor that those responsible should not be held accountable.
    The problem is that the VA has been messed up since before I was born. And every single President who has sat in the chair in the Oval Office since I first put on the uniform has promised that they would fix it.

    And not one of them ever has. And whenever somebody claims that they can fix it (or anything that the government bones up), I am reminded about the Einstein quote about insanity.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The wrong question? Hell, he was seeing the wrong patient! LOL!

    Service at the VA is notoriously bad. The OP shows just how bad it can be.
    I had military doctors prep to operate on the wrong foot. I had another military doctor misdiagnose a torn ACL, PCL and MCL with a damaged meniscus as a 'sprain', then get pissed off when I went back in for help. I finally had to con my way into physical therapy to see a different doctor that would actually look at it. Meanwhile the bones were destroyed causing a total knee knee replacement (5 operations later).

    The flip side...I have full use of and feeling in my left hand because a military doc meticulously spent hours putting it back together.

    My retirement physical was a joke. The doctor had his back to me the whole time and didnt visually observe any of the range of motion exercises. He was a civilian contract doctor. I had to go in to see a doctor at the VA to completely re assess everything.

    I dont have to see the VA for my medical care. For most of my med needs we use Triwest prime and a supplemental insurance through the University. I mainly go there to maintain contacts and presence. No telling what tomorrow will bring. My VA Primary Care provider has been fantastic. The surgeons that replaced my knee were also great (though the process to get in was whack. I literally was put under and surgical prepped before they realized they hadnt prepped a recovery room-had to go back a week later). The work done on the plate in my ankle has been less than successful. I will be seeing a private specialist for that.

    As for VA horror stories...I think the biggest problem has been with the nursing staff and that mostly due to their status as a training hospital. They have a lot of student nurses and sometimes they are prone to making mistakes (and their supervising nurses dont do a great job of over the shoulder and follow up). Because of one of the student nurses errors when writing down blood levels I was a needle plunge away from being sent into a coma. I had a stroke when they replaced my knee...that was most likely due to the doctors decision to NOT start me on Warfarin in advance and then the surgery took three times as long as they expected (due to the extensive damage).

    Overall...the horror stories are a part of the deal. I can tell you that after working on a rapid response crisis team for 6 years with several hospitals, EVERY hospital has the horror stories. Everyone has a story about uncle Joe left in a wheelchair in maintenance closet for 9 hours, or their brother Dave that went in for a VASECTOMY and ended up with a MASTECTOMY...or...you get the drill.

    BTW...I JUST got off the phone with the central appts desk at the VA for a follow up THEY insist I have. The next earliest appt is 21 July for my primary care doc and 15 August for the specialist they need me to see.

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The reason this occurred, is because there are crooked bureaucrats running the system; from top to bottom.
    And judging from your stated political affiliation, you proudly voted for them. Congrats.

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    And judging from your stated political affiliation, you proudly voted for them. Congrats.
    Why are you unable to listen and comprehend what is said?

    Bureaucrats are not politicians. They in fact are apolitical, and hold their jobs no matter what politician is in office, and which party has the majority.

    You keep trying to sling political darts, and trying to find a political target. This is not political at all, it is simply a broken system. And bureaucrats who got their jobs under Clinton are still chugging away happily in the same jobs as they were over 20 years ago. The Secretary of the VA is a political appointee. The Assistant Junior Undersecretary to the Assistant Advisor on Veteran Bedpan Acquisition and Maintenance however is a bureaucrat, and will continue inspecting bedpans and collect a 6 figure salary doing so because they have union protections and know it is almost impossible to ever fire a government employee.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Clearly a phony scandal.

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Why are you unable to listen and comprehend what is said?

    Bureaucrats are not politicians. They in fact are apolitical, and hold their jobs no matter what politician is in office, and which party has the majority.
    How can the bureaucrats do anything if Congress refuses to adequately fund the VA, compliments of the pols you (i. e. "Very Conservative") voted for?

    Next time, think before you reply (or vote).

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Why are you unable to listen and comprehend what is said?

    Bureaucrats are not politicians. They in fact are apolitical, and hold their jobs no matter what politician is in office, and which party has the majority.

    You keep trying to sling political darts, and trying to find a political target. This is not political at all, it is simply a broken system. And bureaucrats who got their jobs under Clinton are still chugging away happily in the same jobs as they were over 20 years ago. The Secretary of the VA is a political appointee. The Assistant Junior Undersecretary to the Assistant Advisor on Veteran Bedpan Acquisition and Maintenance however is a bureaucrat, and will continue inspecting bedpans and collect a 6 figure salary doing so because they have union protections and know it is almost impossible to ever fire a government employee.
    Your typical senior administrator doesnt have union protections. But then...they dont need union protections because they have procedural protections. You are correct...once an administrator is burrowed in they are harder than ticks to dislodge. You have to kill programs...and lord knows we cant kill programs. The greater protection for administrators is the vet lobbies. Once you threaten to cancel programs (regardless of the program) people scream about how you dont care about vets. Then it becomes political and all about votes.

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    How can the bureaucrats do anything if Congress refuses to adequately fund the VA, compliments of the pols you (i. e. "Very Conservative") voted for?

    Next time, think before you reply (or vote).
    Oh, I am thinking. I am also not a political animal like you are.

    And trust me, I am not "Very Conservative", you must have me completely confused with somebody else to think that, or you simply assume that because I do not agree with you I must be so.

    The first statement you said, I actually can't make heads nor tails of what you said. How can somebody do anything if there is no money, is that what you are trying to say?

    Sheer coprolite, nothing else but. Please come again when you actually have something useful to contribute, simply throwing around more political crap is not a solution.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You have to kill programs...and lord knows we cant kill programs.
    Oh, there are ways to kill programs, I saw it myself first-hand.

    Back in the early 1990's, President Bush got a new VA program approved that would give job training for veterans who got out with little to no useable job skills. It was only to be used for the first 2 years after discharge, and only for a Vocational type program. This was not to give veterans education, but employment. And you had to be in a handful of MOS where it was determined that the civilian use of your skills was not available (generally it was all combat arms skills like Infantry, Artillery, Ordinance, and the like). That was great for me, since after spending a decade in the Infantry, I found that the job market for "Mercenary" or "Contract Killer" was amazingly small.

    Well, after just 3 years, President Clinton came into office, and wanted the program killed so the money could be spent on his constituents. Well, that can't be done because of procedures, so instead this Veterans Only program was opened up to any "Aerospace Worker" who had been laid off within the previous 5 years.

    I applied for this program as soon as I got out, and was sitting in the local VA Office (Palmdale, California) next to aeronautical engineers and avionics specialists. HVAC specialists, electrical experts, and they were all trying for the same program.

    Well, needless to say I did not get anything. By the time I was able to apply, almost all of the money was gone. One guy I met I still remember, he had a doctorate in engineering, but was taking advantage of this program to get a free Novell Engineer training program. Lots of people took advantage of it, but very few of them in the last year were veterans.

    When they went through their end of year audit, the program had so badly blown the budget it was cancelled. So now the VA has no program to retrain newly discharged Veterans so they can actually have useful job skills when they come from an MOS that has no real civilian position. If I remember right, the budget was later redirected to the PELL Grant system. Just like a couple of years ago when our Post 9-11 program was raided and raped, and the money shoved into PELL.

    Once again, Veterans get the shaft, and money is shoved at Civilians.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    How can the bureaucrats do anything if Congress refuses to adequately fund the VA, compliments of the pols you (i. e. "Very Conservative") voted for?

    Next time, think before you reply (or vote).
    Do you understand what is actually being funded and at what levels?

    "The President’s 2015 Budget includes $163.9 billion for VA in 2015. This includes $68.3 billion in discretionary resources and $95.6 billion in mandatory funding."

    Of that 'mandatory funding'...$72,172,802,000.00 is paid in pensions and financial compensations. Thats not healthcare...thats cash money.

    The VA suffers from the same problems state and local governments are suffering from. They have made cash promises to people and heaped the burden on future taxpayers. I mentioned earlier the problems with 'concurrent disability'. Thats a HUGE problem. It USED to be that if you retired from the military you got 100% of half of your base pay. If you had a medical disability rated at, say, 40%, then you would get 60% of your retirement pay from DFAS and 40% from the VA tax free. Then someone came up with the idea that really...that 40% should be above and beyond your retiree pay so now you get 140% of your retired military pay due to a medical disability. The extends up to 200% if you are rated at 100% disabled (but...100% disabled does NOT mean you cant work).

    Then there is that whole 'discretionary budget thing. The discretionary budget is greater than the obligated mandatory funding available for healthcare.

    Start to see why this is such a monsta?

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