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SC House votes to cut funding to public university for homosexul literature

Beaudreaux said:
The Bible teaches that we are not the ones to condemn and that is to be left to God. And you may want to do a little research on the Sodom and Gomorrah story. It was about more than just homosexual sex, although that's the single thing that fundamentalists and some others seem to grab on to justify their modern day attempts to demonize their fellow man.

Luke 6:37 / King James Version

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

No one is teaching homosexuality. These are colleges. I seriously doubt that any of those students need to be taught about what homosexuality is.

First Amendment stuff there my friend. Both establishment and freedom of speech. Don't like it? Don't have your kid take that class. No one is requiring it.

And for a little lite reading, maybe you would like to read the following Bible passages about loving thy enemy:

(Matthew 5:43-44) (Matthew 19:18-19) (Matthew 22:36-39) (Mark 12:29-31) (Romans 13:9) (Galatians 5:14) (James 2:8) (Matthew 5:43-48)

Christians should continue to love our enemies, that is if we're talking about what the Bible actually says about the subject.

And as for these politicians a laymen that call themselves ministers of righteousness while condemning others, I feel that this particular verse speaks volumes about them:

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 / King James Version

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
- - - -
I have a number of friends and relatives that are gay or lesbian. And none of them are my enemies.
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Well said, my friend.
 
Kids may become legal adults at 18, but it's not like they pass through some magic maturity field. Some take a little longer than others to grow up, grow into adulthood.
 
clownboy said:
Kids may become legal adults at 18, but it's not like they pass through some magic maturity field. Some take a little longer than others to grow up, grow into adulthood.
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That's true. But the more you control them, the slower that maturity takes place. By 18, the reins should be loosened considerably. Mom and Dad should not be micromanaging what they see in college.
 
tres borrachos said:
When my kids go to college, my husband & I will be paying. We will decide what's appropriate. I have no interest in other adults providing my children with graphic content and pictures. They can provide that to their kids all day long.
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No, you don't. Departments decide, administration decides, and students give feedback. Parents are about as far away from the process as you can imagine.
 
Fiddytree said:
No, you don't. Departments decide, administration decides, and students give feedback. Parents are about as far away from the process as you can imagine.
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That's interesting. In my day, courses had "names", which were rather indicative of the subject material they will cover. So, for example, you could be fairly certain that "Social Implications of Transgender Protest Poetry" wasn't part of your engineering studies, and that "Biochemistry III" would have precious little to say about the need for constant sexual experimentation.
 
Boo Radley said:
That's true. But the more you control them, the slower that maturity takes place. By 18, the reins should be loosened considerably. Mom and Dad should not be micromanaging what they see in college.
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In case you missed this part - she is stating what she will be paying for. If the kid is so much an adult and wish to take in more material, then they are free to get jobs and pay for it themselves.
 
cpwill said:
In case you missed this part - she is stating what she will be paying for. If the kid is so much an adult and wish to take in more material, then they are free to get jobs and pay for it themselves.
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No, I didn't miss it. It has no bearing. Paying or not, as my link makes clear, you do your children no favor being so controlling. Who pays is of no consequences.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, I didn't miss it. It has no bearing. Paying or not, as my link makes clear, you do your children no favor being so controlling. Who pays is of no consequences.
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Since what you are responding to is someone saying what she intends to pay for, then yeah, it is of consequence. ;) Reading is fundamental.
 
Beaudreaux said:
The Bible teaches that we are not the ones to condemn and that is to be left to God. And you may want to do a little research on the Sodom and Gomorrah story. It was about more than just homosexual sex, although that's the single thing that fundamentalists and some others seem to grab on to justify their modern day attempts to demonize their fellow man.

Luke 6:37 / King James Version

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

No one is teaching homosexuality. These are colleges. I seriously doubt that any of those students need to be taught about what homosexuality is.

First Amendment stuff there my friend. Both establishment and freedom of speech. Don't like it? Don't have your kid take that class. No one is requiring it.

And for a little lite reading, maybe you would like to read the following Bible passages about loving thy enemy:

(Matthew 5:43-44) (Matthew 19:18-19) (Matthew 22:36-39) (Mark 12:29-31) (Romans 13:9) (Galatians 5:14) (James 2:8) (Matthew 5:43-48)

Christians should continue to love our enemies, that is if we're talking about what the Bible actually says about the subject.

And as for these politicians a laymen that call themselves ministers of righteousness while condemning others, I feel that this particular verse speaks volumes about them:

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 / King James Version

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
- - - -
I have a number of friends and relatives that are gay or lesbian. And none of them are my enemies.
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Homosexual acts have already been judged, I am not judging any one. Nice try though

little light reading? why read it have it memorized all of them. One homosexuals are not our enemies.
Two its the homosexual ACTS HE does not condone
Three God is the same yesterday and forever he will not condone this behavior today.

Here is a little light reading for you
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

No human that sins is our "enemy" as you state. I do not know where you got that idea. Christians try to lead to God and away from sin/ acts of sin.

Yep yep there are many false prophets in the world. just because one calls themselves a christian means nothing heck the catholic church claims to be christian i assure you many things they do are not biblical in any way.
 
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cpwill said:
Since what you are responding to is someone saying what she intends to pay for, then yeah, it is of consequence. ;) Reading is fundamental.
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It's the control that is the issue. At 17, 18 years if age, parents need to step back and not be so controlling. So no, let the young adults go out and be young adults. Paying makes no difference here.
 
votemout said:
Homosexual acts have already been judged, I am not judging any one. Nice try though

little light reading? why read it have it memorized all of them. One homosexuals are not our enemies.
Two its the homosexual ACTS HE does not condone
Three God is the same yesterday and forever he will not condone this behavior today.

Here is a little light reading for you
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

No human that sins is our "enemy" as you state. I do not know where you got that idea. Christians try to lead to God and away from sin/ acts of sin.

Yep yep there are many false prophets in the world. just because one calls themselves a christian means nothing heck the catholic church claims to be christian i assure you many things they do are not biblical in any way.
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Nicely displayed. I'm sure that God and Jesus are proud.
 
votemout said:
Three God is the same yesterday and forever he will not condone this behavior today.
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This is the part that I always question. At some point there is a OLD and NEW testament right? So if the Christian God can change his views from the Old to the New, who are YOU to say God didn't try to change his will again, or WILL try it again later on?

Now tell me, if God decided to send another Jesus to today's time, do you think anyone would notice?
 
I don't see an issue with this. The people of SC voted the individuals in to office that cut this funding. They were elected, in part, for their socially conservative views. The people of SC expect those they elect to represent their views. They did so. This isn't infringing upon anyone's rights nor is it restricting anyone from freely expressing their sexuality. It simply forces state funded universities to reflect the values of the majority of the people in the state. If a student at College of Charleston or USC Upstate would like to attend a college that allows that sort of thing, they could go out of state or attend a private university.
 
There appears to be more nudity in certain DC and Marvel comics than in this "graphic novel". I checked it out, although I've never read it or even heard about it til this thread. And this is not pornography. Pornography is specifically written to induce sexual arousal, while the "sex scene" from this novel was in fact just sharing more of the story where/as it actually happened (it is a memoir afterall).

There is always a lot of irony when people attempt to censor books, particularly books that are in fact talking about either government censorship or how small mindedness (as demonstrated by the SC legislature) can add to the reasons why events like those depicted in Fun Home happen in the first place, because certain people/places want to hide homosexuals and shun them and tell everyone that homosexuality is wrong and is something to be ashamed of.

And the book was purchased for all incoming Freshmen in an effort to get them talking about a book, discussing the book, encouraging thinking about a book. And it is a good idea to have them reading a book that many haven't likely read, which is why it is better to choose a newer book or a more obscure book rather than a classic.

This is government censorship because they punished (or at least are attempting to punish) these schools only because of the personal beliefs of the legislature, nothing more. There is no legitimate interest in doing what is best for the students here at all, but rather for trying to push their political agenda on the schools/students. They even pretty much admit it with this statement:

“As long as I’m in office,” he said, “I will stand in the gap for those who feel like traditional family values ought to matter.”

There was nothing about giving this book to students that pushed students to automatically take the side of the author or even agree with the school in any way. In fact, nothing required any students who weren't actually in the certain class that discussed this book to even read it. It was meant to give new students something to begin discussions with though, in an academic way.
 
tres borrachos said:
That's the beauty of America. We can all decide what's best for our own children.
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Until they are adults, then it is for them to decide what is best for them, even if you are paying for their college, and legally they are adults at 18, which is about the age of most freshmen in college. If you do not agree with them for what is best for your children when they start college, then don't pay for their college. But I guarantee that stance is not going to go over very well if your biggest complaint is this book. They will resent you for it because it is a petty reason to not pay for their college, especially a college they are looking forward to attending, simply because you disapprove of a book they aren't even mandated to read.
 
ludin said:
i don't think you are reading her posts. she has stated if they want to spend their money or there time whatever.
she doesn't want someone else handing it to them.

i don't think you would take to kindly if someone tried to give you kid a graphical novel depicting sex scene's. i know i wouldn't. more so when i am being charged for it.
hopefully by then i have raised my kids properly so that they know better.
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I would not have any problem whatsoever with someone handing my children, of college age, graphic novels. By the time they reach college, I imagine that they would see much worse things either on TV or even graphic novels that they have purchased or that have been purchased for them, possibly by me.

And the "sex scenes" illustrated in this novel are absolutely not pornographic. In fact, from everything I can find about it, they could barely be considered "sex scenes".
 
roguenuke said:
I would not have any problem whatsoever with someone handing my children, of college age, graphic novels. By the time they reach college, I imagine that they would see much worse things either on TV or even graphic novels that they have purchased or that have been purchased for them, possibly by me.

And the "sex scenes" illustrated in this novel are absolutely not pornographic. In fact, from everything I can find about it, they could barely be considered "sex scenes".
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That is good that YOU don't. YOU are not other people.
 
tres borrachos said:
You have no problem with strangers handing your children porn. Not everyone feels as you do.
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This isn't porn. It is a graphic novel. Pornography depicts sex in a way that is meant to arouse. Even the sex scene in this book furthers the story, as part of the memoir.

Perhaps you need to discover the difference between talking about or even showing sex and pornography. While you're at it, you might want to figure out that once your children are 18, they are adults and legally free to live their own lives. You can't legally control them, even if you are paying for their college education. You can choose to not pay for it anymore, or only pay for schools that you approve of, but you can't control what they do or read or watch.
 
ludin said:
That is good that YOU don't. YOU are not other people.
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And other people are free not to personally approve of people giving their "children", who are really adults, what they consider "porn", eventhough it isn't. Just as there are plenty of people who would not approve of their "children" being exposed to novels such as Lady Chatterley's Lover (a classic, btw), or Gone With the Wind, or the Great Gatsby, or To Kill a Mockingbird because those people have issues with those particular novels and don't want their children reading them, even if their children are really adults and/or in college.

Here's the biggest issue I have with those speaking about others handing their "children" this book. The "children" in question here are college freshmen, which means they are, for the most part adults, and at the very least older teens. They are not really children. Any one of them could in fact buy this novel from the local bookstore without their parents ever knowing about it.
 
tres borrachos said:
The OP said it was handed out to all incoming freshmen. You may want to read the OP link if you want to opine.
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But not "all" incoming freshmen were required to read the novel. They could simply throw it away or donate it or even sell it if they wished without ever cracking the cover on it as long as they were not in that class.
 
roguenuke said:
And other people are free not to personally approve of people giving their "children", who are really adults, what they consider "porn", eventhough it isn't. Just as there are plenty of people who would not approve of their "children" being exposed to novels such as Lady Chatterley's Lover (a classic, btw), or Gone With the Wind, or the Great Gatsby, or To Kill a Mockingbird because those people have issues with those particular novels and don't want their children reading them, even if their children are really adults and/or in college.

Here's the biggest issue I have with those speaking about others handing their "children" this book. The "children" in question here are college freshmen, which means they are, for the most part adults, and at the very least older teens. They are not really children. Any one of them could in fact buy this novel from the local bookstore without their parents ever knowing about it.
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actually i am. if i am paying for it then yes I have a say in what they get handed.

YOU can do what you want you have no say in what I do. as i said that is YOU and YOU are not other people. So what YOU think is ok has no impact on what someone else thinks is ok.
 
roguenuke said:
But not "all" incoming freshmen were required to read the novel. They could simply throw it away or donate it or even sell it if they wished without ever cracking the cover on it as long as they were not in that class.
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Fine then you'd have no problem giving them all a copy of the Bible with it, just as long as it wasn't required reading, right.
 
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