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Thread: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News

    "The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.

    The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."


    Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
    This is good news.

    For too long, Affirmative Action has been used to paper over the dismal state of public education as forced upon the country by the Department of Education and teachers unions.

    Rather than address the problems many children are being forced to live with, the "powers that be" in education have been trying to lower the bar to move kids along, rather than face the realities of helping children reach a bar that is set where it belongs.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Well Dr. Ikari, that kind of puts your idea of what "should be" into proper perspective.
    Frankly, all Colleges should be of such rigor.
    Maybe yours wasn't and you realize it.

    By the way, spare me the reference to your Public High School Diploma BS.
    Especially as it doesn't change anything that was said.
    Did I contend anything, other than pointing out your Captain Obvious moment there? I said there should be a difference between College and University and that University should be the highest and most rigorous of academic persuit. The fact that a single University is comprised of many Colleges speaks to this idealism. Colleges should be more focused and slightly less diverse in education than University.

    Any other known information or nonfactors you wish to add here. Perhaps you can inform us all that gravity is an attractive force between massive bodies (bodies possessing mass). That'll really add to the conversation.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    If GPA's and Test scores were the primary considerations, you are referencing to a scenario that would only occur at the so-called bottom of the barrel applicants. Which really is an unlikely occurrence.
    But, if GPA's and Test scores is were they equaled then there would be something else that would set them apart and noted.
    Which then could be reviewed.
    I can't imagine why you addressed that to me since your response had nothing to do with what I asked jmotivator.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Did I contend anything, other than pointing out your Captain Obvious moment there? I said there should be a difference between College and University and that University should be the highest and most rigorous of academic persuit. The fact that a single University is comprised of many Colleges speaks to this idealism. Colleges should be more focused and slightly less diverse in education than University.

    Any other known information or nonfactors you wish to add here. Perhaps you can inform us all that gravity is an attractive force between massive bodies (bodies possessing mass). That'll really add to the conversation.
    So when a student gets a degree from Dartmouth College or Harvard College (yes that's what Harvard calls their institution that hands out undergraduate degrees), those aren't of the highest and most rigorous pursuits (not persuit) of academia? Those are of a lesser rigor than, say, Golden Gate University, which accepts 100 percent of the students who apply for admission?

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yes - your point about government is a true one. However, if we are going to have a society based on meritocracy, should we not at least try to foster merit in all aspects of college admissions regardless if those preferences come from government or alumni or those who run the place?

    Your point about the purpose of athletes is undeniable. But those same school would still field football teams and basketball teams if they simply had to recruit among the admitted student body. Those of greater athletic ability but lesser academic ability would inevitably find their way to lesser schools where academically they would be a far better fit and they could play there. Is the purpose of elite schools to field a great football team or is it to educate the student body?
    I like what the Ivies do even though they cannot give "athletic scholarships"

    they use what is called the IVY index

    here is how it works (or it did at the time I met with the AD during my 30th reunion in 2011)

    a student is rated on his

    SAT
    Class Rank
    GPA (with weighting for the HS)

    80 points each

    so a "perfect" applicant would be 240 points

    Yale's average was 221.8 IIRC-Harvard was two but almost the same

    overall the Ivies allowed each school a certain number of "slots" based on the # of undergraduates. Yale, under former President Levin, wouldn't allow the admissions office to honor all those slots (a oft recited reason for Harvard kicking yale ass in football over the last decade)

    acceptance rates for athletes on the list was around 80%--206 out of 256 one of the years I was told the numbers.

    however, no team could average more than ONE DEVIATION (I do not recall what that meant in scores) than the average student and no one on that list to the admissions office could be lower than 2 DEVIATIONS below the average student

    this meant that some Ivy coaches would put a kid on the list that might not be stars but would allow him to recruit a kid that was at the bottom of the acceptable numbers.

    I know this when I tried to sell a pair of twins (one a girl, one a boy) to the coach at another school. The girl had great numbers (a 235 on the scale) and her brother was decent-about average at the school in question. He told me if I could get the girl to commit, he'd take her brother too since the men's team and and the women's team were grouped as one unit by the admissions office.. He said the girl would allow him a top recruit whose numbers weren't as good. Didn't work out-the girl was recruited by another school where she ended up starting as a freshman.

    but that is how it works at the ivies. that a school like Yale could win the NCAA Hockey Title was amazing given the restrictions



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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I can't imagine why you addressed that to me since your response had nothing to do with what I asked jmotivator.
    Because I addressed one specific point that you made.

    It isn't something that is likely to happen at such a level, and if suspected, the records could be reviewed to see why the choice was made.

    So suggesting such an unlikely racist scenario is bs to start with.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Because I addressed one specific point that you made.

    It isn't something that is likely to happen at such a level, and if suspected, the records could be reviewed to see why the choice was made.

    So suggesting such an unlikely racist scenario is bs to start with.
    Um, thanks, I'll think I'll wait on jmotivator's response, though.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    So when a student gets a degree from Dartmouth College or Harvard College (yes that's what Harvard calls their institution that hands out undergraduate degrees), those aren't of the highest and most rigorous pursuits (not persuit) of academia? Those are of a lesser rigor than, say, Golden Gate University, which accepts 100 percent of the students who apply for admission?
    You do realize I said "should", yes? Not " is", yes? You know the difference, or are you from Golden Gate University?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Why is it that when some people find something they think is a good thing their very next act is to demand that thing be mandatory for everyone else?
    Because in this case it has far reaching generational consequences. And if we are going to stop mitigating those consequences through things like affirmative action, then we should do as much as we can about the root of the problem.

    And for the record... I agree with the ruling. The Court cannot decide this matter.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

    How many here would support that?
    Admission should be based solely on performance. Period.
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