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Thread: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    So I find it ironic that a program intended to give more people a fair chance is deemed, by people such as yourself, a program that reduces the fairness of the system. I've got news for you, if you were born in Detroit's inner city and you have a single mother and three brothers and need food stamps to survive, life isn't going to be very fair for you. If you disagree, I urge you to go there for a week and tell me what you think.
    How exactly is that unfair?

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    So the difference isn't whether or not you're born into a world of gangs and violence as opposed to country clubs and gates communities? That doesn't make a difference? I understand that people need to believe in free will and "pulling yourself up by your boot straps," but you can take that to a level of stupidity. Denying that being born into an impoverished family, in a far worse school system, with the need to work very young to support your family and without the expectation to succeed in academics -- denying that all that is going to make a huge difference in what kind of chance you have to succeed in school? That's taking it to a level of stupidity. That's why we have affirmative action. It's to give those people a fair shot, to make sure that if they can show they're capable of overcoming the tremendous adversity facing them, it will be rewarded.

    So I find it ironic that a program intended to give more people a fair chance is deemed, by people such as yourself, a program that reduces the fairness of the system. I've got news for you, if you were born in Detroit's inner city and you have a single mother and three brothers and need food stamps to survive, life isn't going to be very fair for you. If you disagree, I urge you to go there for a week and tell me what you think.
    We all have the same opportunity in this country. And there have been people born into inner cities who have succeeded to very high positions, and people born the children of the uber wealthy who failed miserably in life.

    It's what you want to do with your life.

    I also know quite a few people who were born into absolute poverty yet are wildly successful now, including one of our best friends who was beaten within an inch of his life by his crack whore mother's boyfriend, and who lived in a car for almost a year when he was a kid before being tossed in the NY foster home system. He is now a CFO of a very large tech company in MA. He worked his ass off to get out of poverty and his rancid beginnings.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    I also want to add that in the late 1980s I was a customer service manager at a company in Newark, NJ. It was my first job out of college. I had 35+ people working for me - almost all of them black. Most were raised in Newark which rivals Detroit for ugliness. They all finished school, and many went to college. They all held full time jobs and were great members of society. Most of them were raised in the projects. None of them believed they couldn't do better with their lives.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

    How many here would support that?
    I would. University should be exclusive and elitist, the highest benchmark of education and academia with the most diverse and rigorous of requirements. The best and brightest should be selected. For the rest, there's College (which should be different from University), Community College, and Trade School. And surely if you miss the intellectual marks to make University, there can be a way back in through either College or Community College.
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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I also know quite a few people who were born into absolute poverty yet are wildly successful now, including one of our best friends who was beaten within an inch of his life by his crack whore mother's boyfriend, and who lived in a car for almost a year when he was a kid before being tossed in the NY foster home system. He is now a CFO of a very large tech company in MA. He worked his ass off to get out of poverty and his rancid beginnings.
    Again, you're confusing equal opportunity with theoretical opportunity. It's an anecdote from your life versus a hundred years of statistical evidence. I know a guy who won $200,000 from a scratch off ticket. I guess, by your logic, that proves that anybody can get rich in this country.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would. University should be exclusive and elitist, the highest benchmark of education and academia with the most diverse and rigorous of requirements. The best and brightest should be selected. For the rest, there's College (which should be different from University), Community College, and Trade School. And surely if you miss the intellectual marks to make University, there can be a way back in through either College or Community College.
    Why should a university be more elite and exclusive than college?

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Again, you're confusing equal opportunity with theoretical opportunity. It's an anecdote from your life versus a hundred years of statistical evidence. I know a guy who won $200,000 from a scratch off ticket. I guess, by your logic, that proves that anybody can get rich in this country.
    Everyone who buys 1 scratch off ticket has the same chance as everyone else who buys 1 ticket. Your 1 ticket equals 1 chance, same as everyone else's.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

    How many here would support that?
    In general yes, overall no.
    It wouldn't be advisable.
    A University needs to stay afloat, so admissions need to consider the ability to pay. Which would/could also include considerations for large donors that help keep the University afloat.
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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    In general yes, overall no.
    It wouldn't be advisable.
    A University needs to stay afloat, so admissions need to consider the ability to pay. Which would/could also include considerations for large donors that help keep the University afloat.
    So one standard for the common plebeians and a different standard for the rich aristocracy. Sorry - that is no principle I can subscribe to.
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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yes - all those things help support bigtime athletic programs. And at the same time there seems little doubt that some college athletes would never get into those schools on purely academics. Is that not a form of preference?
    Affirmative action was never about athletics, it was about race.
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