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Thread: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    There may be nothing "official", but that's not to say that it doesn't happen. It feeds into public perception of "fairness". If merit was the only criterion, this legislation wouldn't exist. However, it exists because it has become accepted fact that blacks cannot compete on level ground. Hence...here you go. It's feel-good legislation. That's it.
    Yes, Robby is against the law. But we don't say we need to abolish anti robbery laws. In essence, that's what happens with these discussions. Instead of recognizing the school violated the law, people criticize the law because they broke it. And somehow coming to the conclusion absent the law they broke, it wouldn't happen. The schools are not encouraged to do this by law or government, but by what they see as a need for diversity.

    It should also be noted that they are largely not admitting unqualified applicants. You would find if you looked between applicants of the same race, say white, a white male with lower test test scores, lower GPAs got in over whites with higher GPAs and higher test scores. They mean less than many think.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Or a legacy.
    years ago I was sitting in the Morse (one of the 12 residential colleges) at Yale with the late great Robert Dahl-maybe the preeminent Political Science Professor in history. Several of us seniors were discussing Yale admissions. several of us were "legacies" but we all were soon to graduate in the top quarter of our class. However, the discussion turned to some legacies who had poor grades. One senior wanted to ban legacy admissions. He figured Dahl-an openly leftwinger would agree. he did not. he asked the fellow why he or Doug Yates or Bill Foltz (three top professors in his department) worked at yale rather than say for the Rand Corporation. Legacies he said. The money alumni gave Yale was the reason why he had a chaired professorship. why kids whose families could't pay the freight could afford to go to Yale or Harvard or Amherst or Cornell. Get rid of those and private schools like yale would have to use ability to pay far more in its admissions. now, Yale doesn't take that into account. You get in, it makes sure you can afford the place



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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Sad we can't have a decent educational system like Germany, Japan or the Netherlands. In the USA, whether or not you go to U of M's engineering or law school depends a lot on in which zip code you were born and raised. If you went to public school in Waterford or the other well to do sections of Oakland County, you stand a 1000x better chance of going to the state's top school than if you're from Detroit or even Pontiac.
    Lol !!

    Really ? Its the " educational systems" fault thaf we have schools districts like Detroit's, and Atlanta's and LA's ?

    Bull s*** !

    Maybe we can throw more money at the problem, while ignoring the fact that standards have been lowered to the point where inner city schools are turning out graduates who are functionally illiterate.

    Lowered because its easier and more politically correct to lie and pretend than it is to address the REAL problem.

    Inner city schools fail because inner city cultures have been corrupted.

    High levels of perpetual dependence and allot of single mothers and baby's daddies

    No amount of European education standards are going to change that .

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !!

    Really ? Its the " educational systems" fault thaf we have schools districts like Detroit's, and Atlanta's and LA's ?

    Bull s*** !

    Maybe we can throw more money at the problem, while ignoring the fact that standards have been lowered to the point where inner city schools are turning out graduates who are functionally illiterate.

    Lowered because its easier and more politically correct to lie and pretend than it is to address the REAL problem.

    Inner city schools fail because inner city cultures have been corrupted.

    High levels of perpetual dependence and allot of single mothers and baby's daddies

    No amount of European education standards are going to change that .
    Cincinnati was home to many poor Jewish families after the war. Most of them are no longer poor. Their kids went to Walnut Hills HS (a magnet public school -ranked in the top ten nationally back then-still in the top 100 and #1 in Ohio) made top grades, went to top universities and came back doctors and lawyers. I grew up with many of the children of these people and I never ever heard of a Jewish kid being ridiculed by his friends for getting top grades or a seat at Columbia or Cornell

    The smartest black kid in my HS class (sadly he died of AIDS about 23 years ago) came from a working class background. Unlike most of the other black kids he was neither the son of parents who had benefitted from affirmative action and had good government or "quota" jobs at places like P&G nor was he an athlete. He was into drama and theater and (only his close friends knew this) gay. he didn't care much about sports-Shakespeare was his thing. and I know he caught all sorts of crap from the guys in his neighborhood for getting a scholarship to the wealthy private school we attended and for being interested in artistic things, not basketball. and he got grief when he got an academic scholarship to Williams. while his Jewish friends got parties and gifts for acceptances into such schools and often money from their parents for making A grades, he was ridiculed and harassed: at least his parents were strong enough to support him in his choices.

    for kids with less "balls" than this guy had, I can see why its tough. one culture admires and praises academic success, another calls it "acting white" or as my friend D was called-BEING AN "UNCLE TOM"



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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I don't see how that follows what I said. You mentioned pointing out a pattern of white students chosen. How do you know when a pattern has taken shape? What ratio of white to black students does there have to be for such a pattern to form?
    No, I said compare students with equal qualifications and see whether there are more black students or more white students with those qualifications given admission. If so, then there is racial bias. If not, then not.
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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Note: I didn't ready 19 pages..

    If it's best and brightest why has AA been the fact that decides? Be it Governmental jobs or college?
    And before that, it was no blacks need apply. Now, AA is finally had its day, and we can finally have fairness in admissions and hiring with race not being a factor either way.
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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News

    "The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michiganís ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.

    The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."


    Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
    If the effect of this is the same as it was in California, this will actually be good for minorities.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If the effect of this is the same as it was in California, this will actually be good for minorities.
    yeah, they will end up in schools where they are competitive.

    I recall a study about law schools. there was a correlation between passing the bar and how one did in LS. a black guy at say Cornell where he was 4-5 deviations lower in terms of scores than his white and asian counterparts, was often likely to be at the very bottom of his class but if he went to say Buffalo or New York Law he'd be in the middle of his class. those at the bottom of top law schools were less likely to pass the bar than equally intelligent students in the middle of their class at lower rated schools



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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !!

    Really ? Its the " educational systems" fault thaf we have schools districts like Detroit's, and Atlanta's and LA's ?

    Bull s*** !

    Maybe we can throw more money at the problem, while ignoring the fact that standards have been lowered to the point where inner city schools are turning out graduates who are functionally illiterate.

    Lowered because its easier and more politically correct to lie and pretend than it is to address the REAL problem.

    Inner city schools fail because inner city cultures have been corrupted.

    High levels of perpetual dependence and allot of single mothers and baby's daddies

    No amount of European education standards are going to change that .
    All the more reason to give kids who excel in that culture a break over some white kid who is simply marginal after growing up in an environment much more conductive to education. A B-student who grew up in Waterford Twp with the same or slightly higher SAT scores than an inner-city A-student from somewhere along Six Mile Road should be overlooked, IMO.

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    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah, they will end up in schools where they are competitive.

    I recall a study about law schools. there was a correlation between passing the bar and how one did in LS. a black guy at say Cornell where he was 4-5 deviations lower in terms of scores than his white and asian counterparts, was often likely to be at the very bottom of his class but if he went to say Buffalo or New York Law he'd be in the middle of his class. those at the bottom of top law schools were less likely to pass the bar than equally intelligent students in the middle of their class at lower rated schools
    Why that's discrimination!
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