Page 16 of 32 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 315

Thread: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

  1. #151
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,095

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    There are ways around that.

    If DeLaShequah Watkins is applying to college, asking her race is rather redundant.
    At the same time, Mary Elizabeth Anderson could be a young black girl who was adopted by a white couple in Minneapolis.

  2. #152
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,964

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But it is still the right thing to do just the same if we believe that the principle should admit only the best and brightest.
    You're right about "brightest", or at least MORE right than wrong with regards to that. However, "best" is a poor word to use there as it's rather subjective. What makes the "best" student, or whose the "best" type of student to bring into a University, isn't some kind of definitive objective prototype.

    But if the principle is to bring in the brighest, as deemed via grades and test scores, then you'd be absolutely correct that admitting ONLY based on GPA's and test scores would be the best action to live up to that principle.

  3. #153
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    At the same time, Mary Elizabeth Anderson could be a young black girl who was adopted by a white couple in Minneapolis.
    I'd give it a shot.

    You know she has a better chance than a kid whose mother named her DeLaShequah.

  4. #154
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    The meritocrat is often considered a racist, a bully, and an asshole. This is how the world works.
    I think the problem is many mistakenly think there is a clear cut choice when there rarely is. Nearly all considered meet the merit considerations. We are then left to make decisions based on something else. Few colleges really consider GPA and Test scores all that important as anything other than narrowing the field, to prevent having to consider too many applicants. After that hurdle is crossed, the differences are fuzzy and not easily assessed, or at least not as easily as some pretend. And are often decided by factors such as did your parents give money? As I recall, Michigan gave points for where you lived (UP or Alaska). Legacy. All things that have little to do with merit, unless of course the school values those things, and thus sees merit in them.

    I also find it curious that the government does not impose any such criteria for selection. The courts have constantly told schools they can't do this. But SCHOOLS, not government, see a value in this. Perhaps we should ask why?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #155
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think the problem is many mistakenly think there is a clear cut choice when there rarely is. Nearly all considered meet the merit considerations. We are then left to make decisions based on something else. Few colleges really consider GPA and Test scores all that important as anything other than narrowing the field, to prevent having to consider too many applicants. After that hurdle is crossed, the differences are fuzzy and not easily assessed, or at least not as easily as some pretend. And are often decided by factors such as did your parents give money? As I recall, Michigan gave points for where you lived (UP or Alaska). Legacy. All things that have little to do with merit, unless of course the school values those things, and thus sees merit in them.

    I also find it curious that the government does not impose any such criteria for selection. The courts have constantly told schools they can't do this. But SCHOOLS, not government, see a value in this. Perhaps we should ask why?
    No. How about you let schools decide. I don't have a problem that I can't get into Grambling.

  6. #156
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    No. How about you let schools decide. I don't have a problem that I can't get into Grambling.
    Schools are deciding. They're the ones sued, not the government. There is no law requiring them to do this. They lose these cases because they violate AA and discriminate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #157
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Schools are deciding. They're the ones sued, not the government. There is no law requiring them to do this. They lose these cases because they violate AA and discriminate.
    Okay, let schools decide without government force. Better?

    Affirmative Action badly needs to die. That's why we have terms like "token" in the English language.

  8. #158
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Okay, let schools decide without government force. Better?

    Affirmative Action badly needs to die. That's why we have terms like "token" in the English language.
    Without affirmative action, the schools would have won the case. It is affirmative action that prevents them from discriminating based on race. And no, we have terms like "token" based on misunderstandings of the law. Not the law itself.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #159
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Without affirmative action, the schools would have won the case. It is affirmative action that prevents them from discriminating based on race. And no, we have terms like "token" based on misunderstandings of the law. Not the law itself.
    Yeah, uh, no. Affirmative Action prevents them from accepting on merit.

    And it creates tokens because people know who belong there and who are there by quota.

  10. #160
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:26 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,765

    Re: High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You're right about "brightest", or at least MORE right than wrong with regards to that. However, "best" is a poor word to use there as it's rather subjective. What makes the "best" student, or whose the "best" type of student to bring into a University, isn't some kind of definitive objective prototype.

    But if the principle is to bring in the brighest, as deemed via grades and test scores, then you'd be absolutely correct that admitting ONLY based on GPA's and test scores would be the best action to live up to that principle.
    I think you have a good point. I anguish myself about what the standard should be. Are a GPA and test scores the be all and end all of a measurement of a young man or woman? I suspect not. I suspect one needs to look at more. And perhaps that is what is being done with the granting of preferences such as considering ones family background, their economic conditions, what they have overcome in life and other such things. Perhaps even race or ones talents or gifts should play a role. I cannot argue that any or all of these things might be right and proper for consideration.

    Of course the problem then becomes one of the recipe and who is to judge the result put before us. And - in all humility i confess - I do not know how to fairly do that so one is not unfairly disadvantaged over another.

    We took race into consideration as a plus because for so long society took race into consideration as a minus. Plain and simple - it was an attempt to right a wrong. But in doing so we committed further wrongs in denying academically qualified people spots in universities at the expense of not so qualified people. That is not a good thing and perhaps even perpetuates racial wrongs in further generations creating malice and resentment where otherwise none had previously flourished or taken root.

    I am happy you embrace the principle of admitting the best and the brightest and GPA and test scores seem to be the only objective way to accomplish that. We live in a land where college is now plentiful and all who are able can find a place at some level and prove themselves.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 16 of 32 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •