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Thread: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

  1. #31
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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    No, I remembered such.


    Your ability to gobble up any silly conspiracy theory designed to appeal to children lacking critical thinking skills is right up there with the best of them.
    Not nearly as good as the government's and the media's.

  2. #32
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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    WHERE in those treaties does it say that droning irregular combatants is ILLEGAL?

    See, that's what I'm asking you.

    I don't need to be directed to an assorted list of international conventions on war.

    I can easily Google that.

    You're saying that "it is clearly a war crime".

    Okay, show me EXACTLY where it's so clear.

    Thanks.

    Irregular combatants, LOL.

    That kinda reminds of Charlie, the almost affectionate term we used to describe those Vietnamese who objected to the white man taking their country.

  3. #33
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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Our judicial system only extends to cases under the constitution. Foreign enemies do not get the same protections. And we are at war with terrorism wherever that may be. I havent seen any treaties or laws that would prohibit us from defending ourselves by killing enemies in their homes. In fact the UN charter allows a state to defend itself. The ICC even stated that collateral damage was not a crime.

    So you argue that al Qaeda supporters in the US can be killed by Drone strike without due process? What about if they are in England? Canada?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    WHERE in those treaties does it say that droning irregular combatants is ILLEGAL?
    I'm sorry but it's not my job to interpret treaties written in English for you. What in the world is an "irregular combatant"?

    See, that's what I'm asking you.
    You originally asked me to provide you with treaties. Did you change your mind?

    I don't need to be directed to an assorted list of international conventions on war.
    You asked me to provide you with treaties and that's what I did. Are you confused?

    I can easily Google that.
    So why did you ask me to provide you with treaties then? Why didn't you Google that yourself?

    You're saying that "it is clearly a war crime".

    Okay, show me EXACTLY where it's so clear.
    I can lead a horse to water but I can't make it drink it. If you can't figure it out for yourself, I can't help you. Is there something in the treaties you don't understand about the descriptions/definitions of war crimes? Again, I'm not here to interpret plain English language for you.

  5. #35
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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Irregular combatants, LOL.

    That kinda reminds of Charlie, the almost affectionate term we used to describe those Vietnamese who objected to the white man taking their country.
    The term "irregular" (a fairly common term, used even by the ICRC, to describe militia or volunteer military forces and to contrast them to the organized "regular" military) REALLY "reminds" you of "Charlie" (a racist slur)?

    Seriously?

    What a profoundly stupid thing to say.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob0627 View Post
    I'm sorry but it's not my job to interpret treaties written in English for you.
    So in other words, you've been talking out of your ass and have no actual basis for making the claims you did.

    No worries, that's a fairly common tactic around here.

    What in the world is an "irregular combatant"?
    I find it hard to believe that you (or anyone) would actually weigh in on this topic without knowing what that word means.

    Read this: Customary IHL - Rule 4. Definition of Armed Forces

    The Red Cross explains it pretty well.

    It's a pretty common term, sorta a catch-all for terms like insurgent, freedom fighter, guerrilla, revolutionary, and etc...

    The "regular" military is is the official military of a state or country, and "irregular" forces are anyone else that carries out military-like missions.

    You originally asked me to provide you with treaties. Did you change your mind?


    You have yet to demonstrate that droning irregular forces is "clearly a war crime".

    YOU made the claim.

    I questioned it.

    You can either substantiate your claim or you can't.

    At this point I'm inclined to believe that you can't.

    No worries.

    You asked me to provide you with treaties and that's what I did. Are you confused?
    Yeah.

    I'm confused over how you can make a pretty clear-cut claim and then have absolutely no earthly idea how to go about backing up that claim beyond linking to a general article on Wikipedia.

    You see how you asked me above what "irregulars" were so I provided you with a fairly authoritative source describing the term and then explained it in my own words in case you can't be bothered to reference the source?

    That's what I expect from you.

    You use a term or make a claim and you stand behind it and substantiate your use of the term or the basis for the claim.

    That's how educated adults have a conversation about controversial topics.

    I'm confused that another adult wouldn't get that.

    I can lead a horse to water but I can't make it drink it.
    Thing is, you didn't actually lead anything anywhere.

    What you did is tantamount to pointing in the general direction of the Atlantic Ocean and saying, "I don't really know exactly where the water is, but I kinda think it's over in that direction somewhere".

    Lazy and sloppy is what you did.

    And I understand now that you did it that way because you think we're talking about a crime here, or you buy into the conventional wisdom that we must be talking about a crime, but you don't have enough knowledge of the topic or enough of an understanding to really explain why we're talking about a crime.

    And there's no shame in that.

    If you can't figure it out for yourself, I can't help you.
    That's not true.

    If you knew what you were talking about you could easily help me.

    People who understand things teach other people, who are ignorant of that understanding, new things every day.

    Bottom line is that you don't have a firm enough grasp on this to teach anything.

    So you make drive-by comments and then refuse to stand behind them.

    Is there something in the treaties you don't understand about the descriptions/definitions of war crimes?
    Yes.

    I don't understand how they CLEARLY point to the killing of irregular forces amounting to a war crime.

    This is something that lawyers have been arguing about for the better part of the last decade, heck, probably for the better part of the last century in one form or another.

    I've read papers written by Justice Department lawyers, Fordham University lawyers, Berkley Lawyers, The Combating Terrorism Center at West Point, heck, all kinds of papers.

    And if there is ANYTHING that can be said about this topic it is that it is ANYTHING but clear cut.

    So what I don't understand is how you, some anonymous guy on the Internet, are so sure about this when pretty much the entire legal universe has failed to come to a consensus.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    So in other words, you've been talking out of your ass and have no actual basis for making the claims you did.
    So in other words, you're here to attack me because you don't understand what a war crime is. No problem, end of discussion.

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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Nonsense. The Global War On Terror is a fraud of epic proportions and a hoax upon the American people.
    Convince me with logic and reasoning, not just rhetoric.

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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No it's not. It's an offensive, occupational war. Any claim to self defense flew out the window when we left Afghanistan to invade other countries. Now it's just forever war so we can have our two minutes of hate.
    Yes it is. Islamic terrorists keep attacking us. And the 2001 AUF has not changed.

    (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

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    Re: Court orders U.S. to release memo on drones, al-Awlaki killing

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So you argue that al Qaeda supporters in the US can be killed by Drone strike without due process? What about if they are in England? Canada?
    Not freely, no. There are some laws that control it. I was simply arguing that droning so far has been legal (except for on americans in foreign countries.)

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