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US delays Review of Keystone XL Pipeline.....

Fearandloathing said:
Which would be good politics if it were the party that benefits. In this case it's Obama's on-going relationship with the eco-head segment of the party with a view to what he can charge for speaking engagements.

It akin to the brutal mistake the socialists here made last May, saying they would cancel a local pipeline before the submission has been made. They forgot they are made up of working men and women, dependent on high paying jobs to live in this paradise. As a result the Liberals came from a 20 point deficit to a 30% margin....and the New Democrats are now an endangered species.

The US Democrats risk the same fate. Short term, ego-driven rock star politics doesn't work anymore.
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It's interesting that some decisions really do work to hurt your own people! Keep up the good work! I'm impressed! :mrgreen:

Greetings, F&L. :2wave:
 
Dittohead not! said:
SSM is a libertarian issue, drug legalization is supported only by the libertarians, immigration reform is a political football with the Republicans saying they want to secure the border until they actually get into power, libertarians are pro choice in abortion as in everything else.

The Libertarians are on the right side of every issue except immigration. Their open borders plank is exactly what the Democrats and Republicans want, but won't admit it.
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Neither Dems and ESPECIALLY Repubs want open borders. They want their corporate indentured servitude class that has no legal recourse for their treatment.
 
MMC said:
Oh.....you didn't figure out that part about those Unions and who they support, huh? You do realize this is more of a Democrat on Democrat type of Problem. Despite the Republicans wanting this legislation passed.

Because they will always have more heart and will muster up than 98% of those on the left......as the streets show it for what it really is about. At least that is how it plays out here, where I am located.

Note that is Right in the Heart of Liberaldom. On The Front line. Everyday.....24/7. Can you explain why the left doesn't manage to produce many that Have the heart to finish what they start?
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Well this is no surprise. A Repub lover dumbfounded that some other party isn't acting as lock-step as his own.
 
Sherman123 said:
Oh good grief. Its not like the pipeline threatens the water-tables of 13 states, that is ridiculous. It is a 36 inch diameter tube. If you look at the anti-XL map you can see every single possible water source within several thousand feet of the pipeline. Most of which are creeks or small wells. Also no there isn't any significant risk from transporting diluted bitumen 'dilbit' especially when you use the specialized materials that the pipeline would be built with. We've had dilbit flowing into our country for years and so far none of the major pipe leaks or accidents have been related to corrosion, either here or in Canada. What would make this any different?

Keystone XL Google Earth View | Keystone Mapping ProjectKeystone Mapping Project
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Just creeks and small wells huh?

NRDCKeystone.JPG

It's called the Ogallala Aquifer. It irrigates almost all of the center of our country. You know. Farming land.
 
Gill said:
Yeah, good thing we don't have any petroleum pipelines here in the U.S.

View attachment 67165201
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Yes. Let's do more...

The statistics

As we all know, what shows up in the media is not necessarily representative of the situation at large. For a clearer picture, we turn to the Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.

This subdivision of the U.S. Department of Transportation is responsible for "ensuring safe, reliable, and environmentally sound operations" of our domestic pipeline system. It operates completely independently from FERC, the body that regulates pipeline markets and rates of transmission.

According to the PHMSA, there were 603 reported pipeline incidents last year, resulting in 17 deaths, 70 injuries, and just shy of $326 million in property damage. Approximately 139,000 barrels of hazardous liquid spilled over the course of the year.

Over the course of the last five years, those numbers are more or less average. If you go back a little further, the number of incidents has increased over the last 10 years, though the statistics for all other categories remain essentially the same.​

Leave that **** in the ground and lets pursue avenues that make it completely worthless. A great side benefit... it would destroy Russia as their economy is a one trick pony. Fossil Fuels.
 
poweRob said:
Neither Dems and ESPECIALLY Repubs want open borders. They want their corporate indentured servitude class that has no legal recourse for their treatment.
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Hmmm. Someone seems to be a prisoner of his ideology and prejudice.:peace
 
Jack Hays said:
Hmmm. Someone seems to be a prisoner of his ideology and prejudice.:peace
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Evening Jack, it seems the delay may very well doom Pryor in Arkansas and Landrieu in Louisiana. Two red state Dems that were in a heap of trouble prior to the delay announcement. What these two counted on was the pipeline to persuade the voters of Arkansas and Louisiana that having a Democratic Senator is worth something to them.

If these two can't deliver on the pipeline, that probably dooms their chances of re-election. Most prognosticators had these two states in the toss up column, color them red.
 
Perotista said:
Evening Jack, it seems the delay may very well doom Pryor in Arkansas and Landrieu in Louisiana. Two red state Dems that were in a heap of trouble prior to the delay announcement. What these two counted on was the pipeline to persuade the voters of Arkansas and Louisiana that having a Democratic Senator is worth something to them.

If these two can't deliver on the pipeline, that probably dooms their chances of re-election. Most prognosticators had these two states in the toss up column, color them red.
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Good evening, Pero.

I think you're right. BHO sunk them, and damage with unions will hurt more Dems elsewhere. Cowardice is incompatible with leadership.:peace
 
Jack Hays said:
The "indentured servitude" crack has no basis in fact. It derives only from your ideology.:peace
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Actually you are contending that illegal immigrants are not "indentured servants". This denial of fact derives only from your ideology.
 
poweRob said:
Actually you are contending that illegal immigrants are not "indentured servants". This denial of fact derives only from your ideology.
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That's weak. They came of their own volition and can depart at will. There is no meaning of "indentured" that covers that. There's no fact to deny. :peace
 
Jack Hays said:
That's weak. They came of their own volition and can depart at will. There is no meaning of "indentured" that covers that. There's no fact to deny. :peace
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None of our legal protections apply to them while all of the persecutions do. When you are considered a crook when you haven't done anything at all other than just for breathing anywhere in the country... that constant threat of one's existance makes it rather indentured... especially when that can and will be held over your head by your employer. Parse all you want.
 
Jack Hays said:
Good evening, Pero.

I think you're right. BHO sunk them, and damage with unions will hurt more Dems elsewhere. Cowardice is incompatible with leadership.:peace
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The way I am looking at November, West Virginia, Montana, South Dakota seem to be a safe bet to go Republican, that leaves 3 seats to go for control. Add Louisiana and Arkansas, you are down to one. North Carolina, Hagan the incumbent Dem is trailing Tillis by a couple of points, but is still a toss up. Alaska, Dem Begich is in for a fight and is trailing Treadwell, but ahead of Sullivan and Miller. How Alaska goes may depend on how nasty the Republican primary is between those three.

Yeah, Sullivan and his union are none too happy. So the question there is how important is the pipeline to them? Is it important enough for most of those in Sullivan's union will vote Republican this November or is it just one of many issues which may not have an effect on how the rank and file vote? On this there is no way to tell.

But personally, with 186,000 miles of oil pipelines in the U.S. already, what is the big deal of another 2-3,000 miles worth added to it. I think the pipeline is a much safer transportation mode than truck or train. Besides for the environmentalist, there is no greenhouse gases emitted from a pipeline like there are from trucks and trains. That oil is going to be moved from Canada to Texas and Louisiana anyway. I figure you might as well use the safest method.
 
poweRob said:
Actually you are contending that illegal immigrants are not "indentured servants". This denial of fact derives only from your ideology.
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Are you suggesting that illegal immigrants actually choose "indentured servitude" as a way of life, and that's why they sneak into this Country instead of staying at home? That's an unusual way of explaining things.

Greetings, PoweRob. :2wave:
 
poweRob said:
None of our legal protections apply to them while all of the persecutions do. When you are considered a crook when you haven't done anything at all other than just for breathing anywhere in the country... that constant threat of one's existance makes it rather indentured... especially when that can and will be held over your head by your employer. Parse all you want.
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Which is why I'm for open borders, but it's not indenture. Beyond that there's no evidence of any corporate interest in creating the situation. Your entire scenario is created by your ideology.:peace
 
Perotista said:
The way I am looking at November, West Virginia, Montana, South Dakota seem to be a safe bet to go Republican, that leaves 3 seats to go for control. Add Louisiana and Arkansas, you are down to one. North Carolina, Hagan the incumbent Dem is trailing Tillis by a couple of points, but is still a toss up. Alaska, Dem Begich is in for a fight and is trailing Treadwell, but ahead of Sullivan and Miller. How Alaska goes may depend on how nasty the Republican primary is between those three.

Yeah, Sullivan and his union are none too happy. So the question there is how important is the pipeline to them? Is it important enough for most of those in Sullivan's union will vote Republican this November or is it just one of many issues which may not have an effect on how the rank and file vote? On this there is no way to tell.

But personally, with 186,000 miles of oil pipelines in the U.S. already, what is the big deal of another 2-3,000 miles worth added to it. I think the pipeline is a much safer transportation mode than truck or train. Besides for the environmentalist, there is no greenhouse gases emitted from a pipeline like there are from trucks and trains. That oil is going to be moved from Canada to Texas and Louisiana anyway. I figure you might as well use the safest method.
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I think you have this right all the way around.:peace
 
Perotista said:
The way I am looking at November, West Virginia, Montana, South Dakota seem to be a safe bet to go Republican, that leaves 3 seats to go for control. Add Louisiana and Arkansas, you are down to one. North Carolina, Hagan the incumbent Dem is trailing Tillis by a couple of points, but is still a toss up. Alaska, Dem Begich is in for a fight and is trailing Treadwell, but ahead of Sullivan and Miller. How Alaska goes may depend on how nasty the Republican primary is between those three.

Yeah, Sullivan and his union are none too happy. So the question there is how important is the pipeline to them? Is it important enough for most of those in Sullivan's union will vote Republican this November or is it just one of many issues which may not have an effect on how the rank and file vote? On this there is no way to tell.

But personally, with 186,000 miles of oil pipelines in the U.S. already, what is the big deal of another 2-3,000 miles worth added to it. I think the pipeline is a much safer transportation mode than truck or train. Besides for the environmentalist, there is no greenhouse gases emitted from a pipeline like there are from trucks and trains. That oil is going to be moved from Canada to Texas and Louisiana anyway. I figure you might as well use the safest method.
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It sure seems from the howling we're hearing from the environmentalists that they are against any more greenhouse gases be emitted, or we're doomed! They appear to prefer we all have windmills on top of our vehicles or something, but that doesn't wash. Since the States involved are all on board with the safety part of it, and since the pipeline will provide new jobs for their areas, I see no reason why to delay, except for the fact that unions have been very vocal in support of the pipeline! It will be very interesting to see who wins this fight, since the Dems don't want to lose either voting block. Poor BHO - which way to go on this political hot potato? :argue:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
Are you suggesting that illegal immigrants actually choose "indentured servitude" as a way of life, and that's why they sneak into this Country instead of staying at home? That's an unusual way of explaining things.

Greetings, PoweRob. :2wave:
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Hola Polagra.

Well the choice is also one from hell. Do I put myself into that situation to feed my family or not? Not really a choice.
 
Jack Hays said:
Which is why I'm for open borders, but it's not indenture. Beyond that there's no evidence of any corporate interest in creating the situation. Your entire scenario is created by your ideology.:peace
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Just hand out work visas like candy. Then they are legal and taxable and also put into the social security and medicare funds. Then apply all wage laws to them as well that way citizens have a fighting chance to get a job rather than pitting them against those working for below minimum wage... which the corporate world wants and your ideology seems to deny.
 
poweRob said:
Hola Polagra.

Well the choice is also one from hell. Do I put myself into that situation to feed my family or not? Not really a choice.
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How about putting pressure on foreign governments to allow more freedom and less corruption in order that people won't have to uproot themselves from their homelands in order to properly feed their families. It seems to me that the US gets a lot of blame for not letting people in when the real responsibility lies at the source of the problem.
 
poweRob said:
None of our legal protections apply to them while all of the persecutions do. When you are considered a crook when you haven't done anything at all other than just for breathing anywhere in the country... that constant threat of one's existance makes it rather indentured... especially when that can and will be held over your head by your employer. Parse all you want.
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This country has a shortage of jobs the way it is, and nobody asked these people to sneak into our country in the first place. To add insult to injury politicians will want to make them legal and then give them the right to bring more of their needy families here. I might sound hard hearted but you take care of your own first.
 
poweRob said:
Yes. Let's do more...

The statistics

As we all know, what shows up in the media is not necessarily representative of the situation at large. For a clearer picture, we turn to the Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
​
Click to expand...


Hmmm, the fool.com, eh? You use them as a source much?

Seems appropriate.​
 
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