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US delays Review of Keystone XL Pipeline.....

timorg02 is correct in posting that the decision to build the pipeline has already been made. In fact, I saw this as a done deal a couple of years ago. Obama and all American presidents and governments work for various forms of capital, not people.

Dittohead not! is also correct in pointing out that Obama is stuck between his environmental and labor constituencies, and so this politically problematic pro-pipeline decision that he has already made, when announced, will be a political disaster for the Dems.

So Obama has successfully avoided having his political chickens coming home to roost in the mid-terms, but has guaranteed a disaster for the Dems in 2016.

On the pipeline itself, the major concern is not the oil that it will inevitably leak, as pipelines do, but the gravely increased amount of CO2, etc., that will be released into our degraded atmosphere, and, most of all, the ironclad commitment to fossil fuels and the attendant destruction of humanity it represents.

I hate racism with a passion, but Obama is astonishingly conservative as well as politically incompetent. I'm afraid that an accurate assessment of him will conclude that he has been one of the worst, most hapless presidents in American history. Mr. Natural
 
The pipeline is being built, as we type, I can see a section of it still above ground outside my office.
The existing refineries have more capacity to process than they are currently using.
The additional Oil will require hundreds more direct jobs, and several thousand secondary jobs.
Turning raw material into finished product, has always been good for the economy,
In the case of oil, the market is there and growing, we just need more raw material.
The really good news, is the same refineries that turn oil into fuel, can make fuel from scratch,
when oil becomes too expensive.

I hope your right. However, I have my doubts that the number of jobs you are predicting will arise.

Pipe Dreams: How Many Jobs Will Be Created By Keystone XL? - Forbes
 
I hope your right. However, I have my doubts that the number of jobs you are predicting will arise.

Pipe Dreams: How Many Jobs Will Be Created By Keystone XL? - Forbes
There has historically been a big multiplier for Refinery jobs.
One Guy getting a Job making $70-90K, in an area with affordable housing.
Buys a house, Buys cars, boats, raises his Family,
all of theses activities spin off secondary jobs.
Like the Ford Plant in Louisville, may not employ tens of thousands directly,
but provides the community with many secondary jobs.
 
There has historically been a big multiplier for Refinery jobs.
One Guy getting a Job making $70-90K, in an area with affordable housing.
Buys a house, Buys cars, boats, raises his Family,
all of theses activities spin off secondary jobs.
Like the Ford Plant in Louisville, may not employ tens of thousands directly,
but provides the community with many secondary jobs.

Oil is also used a great deal in manufacturing, plastics for example. A partial list of products made from petroleum

Five reasons why Keystone XL benefits the U.S. | Keystone XL Pipeline
 
This is going to come back and hurt these Democrats with this mid term election too.


Blue on Blue: Labor Unions Slam 'Gutless' WH on Keystone Delay.....

46297a03-d1ab-4d20-91e7-1e91369b9eca.jpg


Mary Landrieu and friends won't get their wish. The White House is again hunkering down and postponing a decision until early 2015, and possibly beyond -- leaving thousands of American workers in the lurch. During his obnoxious Obamacare press conference last week, the president said that Washington must stop debating the health law, and move on to more pressing matters like jobs and the economy (fronts on which Obamacare is inflicting damage, incidentally). He even called for additional "investments" in American infrastructure, which he said would "improve our economy for the long term." Literally the next day, he swatted down a hugely popular job-creating infrastructure project. As Dan wrote earlier, MSNBC's Morning Joe crew seemed perplexed by the move, which liberal host Mika Brzezinski called "hard to defend." The Wall Street Journal's editors agree, but they aren't puzzling over what happened. Follow the money:

The Koch brothers may get the media attention, but the billionaire getting the most political bang for his buck is Tom Steyer. The hedge-fund politico has pledged to raise $100 million to help Democrats keep the Senate, and on Friday he received a major return on his investment when the State Department again delayed its decision on the Keystone XL pipeline ... The real reason for the delay is Democratic politics. Mr. Steyer and the party's liberal financiers are climate-change absolutists who have made killing Keystone a non-negotiable demand. But the White House doesn't want to reject the pipeline before November because several Senate Democrats running for re-election claim to favor it. We say "claim" because Louisiana's Mary Landrieu and others can't even get Majority Leader Harry Reid to give them a vote on the floor.

The White House's actions, and Harry Reid's obedient obstruction of votes on the question, expose Landrieu, Pryor, Begich, Hagan et al as powerless within their own party. The party's liberals can count on the votes of these self-stylized "moderates" when they're really needed (see: Obamacare), but will blithely ignore the blue dogs when they decline to toe the Obama line. These Senators can brag about "standing up to the White House" on Keystone back home, but the proof is in the pudding. They're Obama rubber stamps when it counts, and wield precious little influence on important issues like Keystone -- to the point that they can't even persuade their own leadership to schedule votes. It also goes without saying that although they'll profess to be angry and disappointed about the recent delay, these incumbents will be more than happy to take campaign cash from the Steyers of the world. Democrats love their "out of state billionaires." In any case, the American people strongly support construction of the pipeline, as do prominent labor unions whose members want work. Several unions are pounding away at the White House, recognizing that they've been demoted on the totem pole of liberal special interests:

A top labor union blasted the Obama administration on Friday over what it described as a nakedly political decision to once again delay a decision on the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline. Terry O’Sullivan, general president of the Laborers International Union of America (LIUNA), called the move “gutless” and a “low blow to the working men and women of our country.” The State Department announced on Friday that it would push back its decision on the pipeline until after the midterm elections in November.

The actions by the Obama Administration to further extend the review process for the Keystone XL pipeline is a cold, hard slap in the face for hard working Americans who are literally waiting for President Obama's approval and the tens of thousands of jobs it will generate. Despite this administration’s own findings that the Keystone project will result in significant economic benefits to our country, President Obama has placed politics over substantive policy that only serves to advance the agenda of well funded radical environmentalists....It's ironic that at the same time billionaire conservatives are coming under increasing scrutiny and criticism by the left for their involvement in politics, there is nary a word about the political spending by liberal billionaires that negatively impact the job prospects and livelihoods of working class Americans.” .....snip~

Blue on Blue: Labor Unions Slam 'Gutless' WH on Keystone Delay - Guy Benson
 
timorg02 is correct in posting that the decision to build the pipeline has already been made. In fact, I saw this as a done deal a couple of years ago. Obama and all American presidents and governments work for various forms of capital, not people.

Dittohead not! is also correct in pointing out that Obama is stuck between his environmental and labor constituencies, and so this politically problematic pro-pipeline decision that he has already made, when announced, will be a political disaster for the Dems.

So Obama has successfully avoided having his political chickens coming home to roost in the mid-terms, but has guaranteed a disaster for the Dems in 2016.

On the pipeline itself, the major concern is not the oil that it will inevitably leak, as pipelines do, but the gravely increased amount of CO2, etc., that will be released into our degraded atmosphere, and, most of all, the ironclad commitment to fossil fuels and the attendant destruction of humanity it represents.

I hate racism with a passion, but Obama is astonishingly conservative as well as politically incompetent. I'm afraid that an accurate assessment of him will conclude that he has been one of the worst, most hapless presidents in American history. Mr. Natural

Hmmm. Pipelines are the safest and least spill/leak prone means of transporting oil. And neither this pipeline nor any other will increase the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere; that's a function of use. And a commitment to fossil fuels would be a boon to mankind, powering the interim until fusion comes on line one day.:peace
 
Assuming they are properly maintained. And they aren't in this country.

Pipelines in the US are far from the worst, and worldwide pipelines are the cleanest means of transport. The leak danger claim is a red herring.:peace
 
Lets be clear. Every day of delay of the pipeline is more profit for Warren Buffets rail system. There is a reason for his decision and as usual its "special."

Amen Brotha! :lol: The same Warren Buffet that believed the rich should pay more in taxes because of his hold on the insurance industry that makes billions off of wealthy people having to buy insurance to offset death taxes? :lol: What a sweetheart. It was special treatment for his brothas in the unions when it came to Obamacare. It was special treatment to the unions over shareholders with that fiasco at GM forcing them to retool to make these piss ant cars that no one wants at the cost of the taxpayers. It is the environmentalists pushing all the green energy "stuff" while their homeboys at the EPA are regulating the hell out of fossil fuels.
 
Amen Brotha! :lol: The same Warren Buffet that believed the rich should pay more in taxes because of his hold on the insurance industry that makes billions off of wealthy people having to buy insurance to offset death taxes? :lol: What a sweetheart. It was special treatment for his brothas in the unions when it came to Obamacare. It was special treatment to the unions over shareholders with that fiasco at GM forcing them to retool to make these piss ant cars that no one wants at the cost of the taxpayers. It is the environmentalists pushing all the green energy "stuff" while their homeboys at the EPA are regulating the hell out of fossil fuels.

Don't cha just luv it!? :bs:

Greetings, Vesper. ::2wave:
 
Pipelines in the US are far from the worst, and worldwide pipelines are the cleanest means of transport. The leak danger claim is a red herring.:peace


Yeah JH......wherein Team O. Noted themselves.

Despite this administration’s own findings that the Keystone project will result in significant economic benefits to our country, President Obama has placed politics over substantive policy that only serves to advance the agenda of well funded radical environmentalists.....snip~


But then everybody forgot The Democrats staying up all night to talk about Global Warming.....resulting in the Blue Dog Demos taking the hit.

Just like Obama knew they would.
 
I may be wrong but wasn't there a time when elected leaders did what they thought was best for the country?

Yeah, there was such a time - but it's apparently been phased out. I think it's referred to as "the good old days" by those who remember it! :sigh:

Greetings, Grant. :2wave:
 
Don't cha just luv it!? :bs:

Greetings, Vesper. ::2wave:

Actually Polgara I am pissed over it all. I am sick and tired of a group of people in this country so ignorant to believe CO2 is a pollutant when every living thing other than a bacteria and a couple of fungi produces it and every green thing thrives on it while producing oxygen. And to allow these morons such powers as to hinder the pipeline, or put coal out of business, hinder drilling for fossil fuel and even regulate the flatulence of cattle, dairy cows and every other barnyard animal over CO2/methane they produce is preposterous. I'm tired of the same morons willing to even flirt with giving up the sovereignty of this nation through the UN for such idiocy. May someone enlighten them soon before they f-ing ruin this country.
 
Yeah JH......wherein Team O. Noted themselves.

Despite this administration’s own findings that the Keystone project will result in significant economic benefits to our country, President Obama has placed politics over substantive policy that only serves to advance the agenda of well funded radical environmentalists.....snip~


But then everybody forgot The Democrats staying up all night to talk about Global Warming.....resulting in the Blue Dog Demos taking the hit.

Just like Obama knew they would.

Here is something very interesting:

America depends on a network of more than 185,000 miles of liquid petroleum pipelines, nearly 320,000 miles of gas transmission pipelines, and more than 2 million miles of gas distribution pipelines to safely and efficiently move energy and raw materials to fuel our nation's economic engine. This system of pipelines serves as a national network to move the energy resources we need from production areas or ports of entry throughout North America to consumers, airports, military bases, population centers and industry every day.

Pipeline101 - Why-Do-We-Need-Pipelines

If we have more than 185,000 miles of oil pipelines today, what in the world is the problem with another 2-3,000 miles of added pipeline the Keystone would add? It is all purely political and an attempt to appease a 100 million dollar donor with a quid pro quo with the delay and the environmentalist.

If one takes an honest look shipping oil via truck or train is a lot more dangerous and adds far more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere than a pipeline which everything is enclosed.

Now if Democratic senators up for re-election this year, Landrieu in Louisiana, Pryor in Arkansas can't convince their own party and president to approve the pipeline, why in the world would the folks of Arkansas and Louisiana send them back to Washington. Those two already let the people of their state down once when they voted against the people who sent them to Washington on the ACA. This delay may be just what Cotton in Arkansas and Cassidy in Louisiana need to defeat these two Democratic incumbents.
 
Actually Polgara I am pissed over it all. I am sick and tired of a group of people in this country so ignorant to believe CO2 is a pollutant when every living thing other than a bacteria and a couple of fungi produces it and every green thing thrives on it while producing oxygen. And to allow these morons such powers as to hinder the pipeline, or put coal out of business, hinder drilling for fossil fuel and even regulate the flatulence of cattle, dairy cows and every other barnyard animal over CO2/methane they produce is preposterous. I'm tired of the same morons willing to even flirt with giving up the sovereignty of this nation through the UN with such idiocy. May someone enlighten them soon before they f-ing ruin this country.

When they refuse to listen to common sense, this is what you can expect! Who is there to "enlighten" them when every move is determined by party agenda, and not for the good of the country?
 
When they refuse to listen to common sense, this is what you can expect! Who is there to "enlighten" them when every move is determined by party agenda, and not for the good of the country?

When you have a mass of citizens who can recognize who Lindsey Lohan is but not Nancy Pelosi. When you have a media so willing to play the fear card that environmentalists live for without any scrutiny over their claims, or an education system now heavily regulated by the federal government which at this particular time politically skews "science" and what is being taught as "fact" indoctrinating the children into the fold, there isn't much enlightening going on. The only hope is to get those in office spewing and promoting this crap voted out.
 
I am not sure that the oil company who wants the pipeline is the best source to cite in defense of the pipeline. I do however, as I have stated, feel that the pipeline should indeed be approved simply for the foreign policy aspect and control of the oil.

Maybe it's not the best source but is what they are saying true?

If it is false then they are exposing themselves to lies and ridicule, an opportunity for those who against most sources of power apart from wind and solar. Every word these companies make is scrutinized repeatedly by those who are against any sort of pipeline, and for any number of reasons.

Knowing all of this I may be moderately skeptical but remain more skeptical of those who claim only four or 20 people will be employed full time from this project.
 
Maybe it's not the best source but is what they are saying true?

If it is false then they are exposing themselves to lies and ridicule, an opportunity for those who against most sources of power apart from wind and solar. Every word these companies make is scrutinized repeatedly by those who are against any sort of pipeline, and for any number of reasons.

Knowing all of this I may be moderately skeptical but remain more skeptical of those who claim only four or 20 people will be employed full time from this project.
I don't know whether or not what they're saying is true, but I do know that special interests have no qualms about publishing falsehoods and exposing themselves to "lies and ridicule."

As for the numbers of people employed by oil pipelines, there are plenty of examples of oil pipelines already. The number people they employ should be a clue.
 
Once again Obama shows he is not about jobs and bends to his special interests. As well as stick it Right into the Republican's eyes since they were hoping to work out a deal with him. No time limit.....just hold off indefinitely. There is no reason for the Republicans to trust him on anything he states. Now Canada will proceed to sell to China. No pick up on the jobs and revenue. What say ye?



The Obama administration is extending indefinitely the amount of time federal agencies have to review the Keystone XL pipeline, the State Department said Friday, likely punting the decision over the controversial oil pipeline until after the midterm elections.

The State Department didn't say how much longer it will grant agencies to weigh in but cited a recent decision by a Nebraska judge that overturned a state law that allowed the pipeline's path through the state, prompting uncertainty and an ongoing legal battle. Nebraska's Supreme Court isn't expected to rule for another several months, and there could be more legal maneuvering after that. The delay potentially frees President Barack Obama to avoid making a final call on the pipeline until after the November election.

"The agency consultation process is not starting over. The process is ongoing, and the department and relevant agencies are actively continuing their work in assessing the permit application," the State Department said in a statement.

In January, the State Department said that building the pipeline would not significantly boost carbon emissions because the oil was likely to find its way to market no matter what. Transporting the oil by rail or truck would cause greater environmental problems than the pipeline, the report said.

The State Department has jurisdiction because the pipeline would cross the border between the U.S. and Canada.....snip~

US delays review of Keystone XL pipeline
Associated Press By JOSH LEDERMAN and DINA CAPPIELLO 3 minutes ago



Oh, it's been a political thing since Obama took office.

That is transparent in Canadian reporting, where two years ago it was forecast that EVERY US agency would give a green light but would never be approved under Obama, and if so, as a lame duck.

You see, the history on this puppy goes way back, to the first economical development of synthetic oil from the oil sands in northern Alberta. When refined, it is cleaner, longer lasting and the finest high temperature lubricating substance on the planet.

Athabasca oil sands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an addition to two existing pipelines transporting the crude to refineries on the Gulf Coast and then to offshore markets, meaning Asia, amounting to huge profits for investors and about 300,000 jobs over the life of the pipeline. Objections of technology have been overcome, the XL is called "XL" because it is the state of the art technology.

They have also re-routed over objectionable areas. It has been green lighted by the EPA, Interior, Labour, and for some reason Kerry and the State Department, presumably because this stuff is going to Japan, Korea, and China. State must also be aware that since Obama came into office, the Canadian end of the consortium, the one with the technology, has been planning an alternative, crossing the northern Rockies to Prince Rupert, where a Liquified Natural Gas Plant and ship loading facility are in the development stage. Chinese investors have let it be known they will build a secondary refinery there as well, which if it happens, will rob Americans of hundreds of thousands of jobs and the job creating profits to investors.

As the hearings on one of the three pipeline proposals have closed, federal approval is likely with the current Conservative administrations, which means all the remains is the usual threats of native law suits which get bought out pretty quick any more.

I'd say, if Obama doesn't green light it by 2015, it's deader than the stuff that died making the oil in the first place.
 
The Keystone is a lose - lose for the president and the Democrats. If it is approved, then the environmental community will be unhappy. If it isn't approved, labor will be unhappy. Both are supporters of Democrats.

Like Harry Truman said, "No matter what you do in this job, some SOB doesn't like it." So, someone won't like it, but at least they won't like it after the November election.



Then there is the issue of relations with your neighbors. One of the reasons Harper can't stand Obama is because the prick doesn't keep his word. Harper has been trying to shore up industry concerns; meeting with Obama on it at their first G-8, where, if you read between the lines of what Harper said and what the industry is now saying, Obama gave assurances...

Then, nope, some actors called a demonstration at the White House and that was that.

So now he has investors AND Canada pissed off, and the good people in Washington State don't understand why Canada and British Columbia won't renegotiate the Columbia River Treaty.


So the US government goes against the approvals of its own bureaucracy, gives up billions in profits, hundreds of thousands of jobs, while losing the support of his Northern neighbor, it's investors, the US labor community, and allows China to get another small step ahead....to appease some actors and their lemming followers..

That's good for whom now?
 
I don't know whether or not what they're saying is true, but I do know that special interests have no qualms about publishing falsehoods and exposing themselves to "lies and ridicule."

As for the numbers of people employed by oil pipelines, there are plenty of examples of oil pipelines already. The number people they employ should be a clue.

But of course it's not just the maintenance crews who work on the pipelines once they are completed, its the oil being used in manufacturing as well. If the American people prefer Venezuelan or mid East oil then they can continue to do so. Oil will always find a market.
 
Oh, it's been a political thing since Obama took office.

That is transparent in Canadian reporting, where two years ago it was forecast that EVERY US agency would give a green light but would never be approved under Obama, and if so, as a lame duck.

You see, the history on this puppy goes way back, to the first economical development of synthetic oil from the oil sands in northern Alberta. When refined, it is cleaner, longer lasting and the finest high temperature lubricating substance on the planet.

Athabasca oil sands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an addition to two existing pipelines transporting the crude to refineries on the Gulf Coast and then to offshore markets, meaning Asia, amounting to huge profits for investors and about 300,000 jobs over the life of the pipeline. Objections of technology have been overcome, the XL is called "XL" because it is the state of the art technology.

They have also re-routed over objectionable areas. It has been green lighted by the EPA, Interior, Labour, and for some reason Kerry and the State Department, presumably because this stuff is going to Japan, Korea, and China. State must also be aware that since Obama came into office, the Canadian end of the consortium, the one with the technology, has been planning an alternative, crossing the northern Rockies to Prince Rupert, where a Liquified Natural Gas Plant and ship loading facility are in the development stage. Chinese investors have let it be known they will build a secondary refinery there as well, which if it happens, will rob Americans of hundreds of thousands of jobs and the job creating profits to investors.

As the hearings on one of the three pipeline proposals have closed, federal approval is likely with the current Conservative administrations, which means all the remains is the usual threats of native law suits which get bought out pretty quick any more.

I'd say, if Obama doesn't green light it by 2015, it's deader than the stuff that died making the oil in the first place.



Heya F&L. :2wave: I heard the Canadian PM had some words to say about it too.

Still this is going to hurt some Democrats come election time.....even Begich.
 
Then there is the issue of relations with your neighbors. One of the reasons Harper can't stand Obama is because the prick doesn't keep his word. Harper has been trying to shore up industry concerns; meeting with Obama on it at their first G-8, where, if you read between the lines of what Harper said and what the industry is now saying, Obama gave assurances...

Then, nope, some actors called a demonstration at the White House and that was that.

So now he has investors AND Canada pissed off, and the good people in Washington State don't understand why Canada and British Columbia won't renegotiate the Columbia River Treaty.


So the US government goes against the approvals of its own bureaucracy, gives up billions in profits, hundreds of thousands of jobs, while losing the support of his Northern neighbor, it's investors, the US labor community, and allows China to get another small step ahead....to appease some actors and their lemming followers..

That's good for whom now?

True, but, you see, none of that matters in Washington. The only thing that matters is scoring points for the party.
 
True, but, you see, none of that matters in Washington. The only thing that matters is scoring points for the party.



Which would be good politics if it were the party that benefits. In this case it's Obama's on-going relationship with the eco-head segment of the party with a view to what he can charge for speaking engagements.

It akin to the brutal mistake the socialists here made last May, saying they would cancel a local pipeline before the submission has been made. They forgot they are made up of working men and women, dependent on high paying jobs to live in this paradise. As a result the Liberals came from a 20 point deficit to a 30% margin....and the New Democrats are now an endangered species.

The US Democrats risk the same fate. Short term, ego-driven rock star politics doesn't work anymore.
 
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