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Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’[W:254:298:850,989]

Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

NIMBY said:
The stupid stunts were the sniper on the interstate overpass and FOX tape threatening to use women and children as shields.
That is what international terrorists do.
Reid wants this battle for the 2014 elections .
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No, it was the excessive and unnecessary use of force by the BLM. Personally, considering Reid's previous support of gun rights and a NEvada district...he'd be wise to steer well clear of this mess.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Of by and for the corporations
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

calamity said:
Bundy owes a million dollars in back fees and fines. Lets not bring strawmen like tortoises into this. Fact is Bundy grazed without paying, plus he grazed more cattle than the rules allow. Hence the back fees and fines.
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There seems no doubt Bundy owes the money but the question is how an innocuous sounding government arm of government called the Bureau of Land Management manages to get SWAT teams and armed federal troops to collect debts they feel is owed.

The department of Education now has a SWAT team, as does the Department of Agriculture and others, and they appear to be able to cross jurisdictional lines as they please. Was it the intention, in 1976 when the BLM was initiated. for them to collect fees and arrive with SWAT teams in case of non payment?

This issue goes well beyond Bundy and the his problems into the precedent and the selective use of excessive force on American people by their own government.

Every American, and forget the Left Wing or Right Wing thing, should be concerned about the deeper implications of this issue.

The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online

Beware the U.S. Education Department SWAT team
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

fmw said:
OK, I'll accept that as soon as the government refers to Nidal as a terrorist and what he did as a terrorist act.
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Yes, if they shoot the ranchers and their families they can now call it work place violence, and many may well buy into that explanation..
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Grant said:
There seems no doubt Bundy owes the money but the question is how an innocuous sounding government arm of government called the Bureau of Land Management manages to get SWAT teams and armed federal troops to collect debts they feel is owed.

The department of Education now has a SWAT team, as does the Department of Agriculture and others, and they appear to be able to cross jurisdictional lines as they please. Was it the intention, in 1976 when the BLM was initiated. for them to collect fees and arrive with SWAT teams in case of non payment?

This issue goes well beyond Bundy and the his problems into the precedent and the selective use of excessive force on American people by their own government.

Every American, and forget the Left Wing or Right Wing thing, should be concerned about the deeper implications of this issue.

The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online

Beware the U.S. Education Department SWAT team
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DEA, ATF, DOE DOLM...I guess they all have an enforcement division. It is what it is. THis is what happens when Right Wingers approve a thing called the War on Drugs, which began the militarization of the domestic arms of the Federal Government.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

calamity said:
DEA, ATF, DOE DOLM...I guess they all have an enforcement division. It is what it is. THis is what happens when Right Wingers approve a thing called the War on Drugs, which began the militarization of the domestic arms of the Federal Government.
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It is what it is?

It seems to be the 'left wingers' in this case who are supporting the military and SWAT teams to enforce the collection of debts, not the 'right wing'. But anyone familiar with left wing history knows that this response, and their subservience to government, is not unusual..
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Grant said:
It is what it is?

It seems to be the 'left wingers' in this case who are supporting the military and SWAT teams to enforce the collection of debts, not the 'right wing'. But anyone familiar with left wing history knows that this response, and their subservience to government, is not unusual..
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Oh for ****'s sake.

I'm not a huge fan of the militarization of every law enforcement operation out there, but even you can see the extenuating circumstances here. They brought heat because they were (correctly) expecting heat in return.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Kobie said:
Oh for ****'s sake.

I'm not a huge fan of the militarization of every law enforcement operation out there, but even you can see the extenuating circumstances here. They brought heat because they were (correctly) expecting heat in return.
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There are no "extenuating circumstances". The federal government should not be sending in troops and SWAT Teams against American citizens.

It's a mystery how Leftists can be against the US Military attacking a genocidal dictator like Saddam Hussein but be for the US Military attacking a Nevadan rancher. They seem to be quite stupid.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Grant said:
There are no "extenuating circumstances". The federal government should not be sending in troops and SWAT Teams against American citizens.

It's a mystery how Leftists can be against the US Military attacking a genocidal dictator like Saddam Hussein but be for the US Military attacking a Nevadan rancher. They seem to be quite stupid.
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The U.S. military wasn't sent (lie no. 1), they didn't attack anyone (lie no. 2), and "Leftists" weren't against the idea of taking out Hussein, they were against the rationalizations for it and the inevitable blowback that happened (lie No. 3). You're doing VERY badly here, grant.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Kobie said:
You're doing VERY badly here, grant.
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That's all you can expect of a guy who grew up in Canada and somehow became transfixed by the extremist right wing of America.

Pretty funny him complaining about big government when he fully supports government sanctioned discrimination and harassment of Muslims and a complete ban on Muslims being allowed to immigrate to Canada based solely on their religion and no other factor.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Jetboogieman said:
That's all you can expect of a guy who grew up in Canada and somehow became transfixed by the extremist right wing of America.

Pretty funny him complaining about big government when he fully supports government sanctioned discrimination and harassment of Muslims and a complete ban on Muslims being allowed to immigrate to Canada based solely on their religion and no other factor.
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MODERN CONSERVATISM: Government sucks, except when it supports my worldview.

I have nothing against actual, real, Buckley-esque conservative thought. We need it. The U.S. needs a real conservative party and a real liberal party, and we have neither.

Modern American liberalism has degenerated into playing everyone's heartstrings 24/7, and modern American conservatism has degenerated into sucking up to the filthy rich in the endless pursuit of the "American dream," and demonizing anyone else who tries to get their own share of it.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Kobie said:
MODERN CONSERVATISM: Government sucks, except when it supports my worldview.

I have nothing against actual, real, Buckley-esque conservative thought. We need it. The U.S. needs a real conservative party and a real liberal party, and we have neither.

Modern American liberalism has degenerated into playing everyone's heartstrings 24/7, and modern American conservatism has degenerated into sucking up to the filthy rich in the endless pursuit of the "American dream," and demonizing anyone else who tries to get their own share of it.
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Not true. Most real conservatives do not think the government sucks. There is a place in our world for government because without it, there would be anarchy, and no conservative wants anarchy.

There is a gigantic difference between big government & small government, which is what a true conservative should want. And I don't know any conservative who "sucks up to the filthy rich" for anything.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tres borrachos said:
Not true. Most real conservatives do not think the government sucks. There is a place in our world for government because without it, there would be anarchy, and no conservative wants anarchy.

There is a gigantic difference between big government & small government, which is what a true conservative should want. And I don't know any conservative who "sucks up to the filthy rich" for anything.
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Well, any person who is elected into a national office has sucked up to one or more filthy rich person(s) in order to get there. And I think a view that we associate with the right wing can and does include anarcho-capitalists at least. Of course, that's why I don't like our scale.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

TheLastIndependent said:
Well, any person who is elected into a national office has sucked up to one or more filthy rich person(s) in order to get there. And I think a view that we associate with the right wing can and does include anarcho-capitalists at least. Of course, that's why I don't like our scale.
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As does the left wing.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tres borrachos said:
As does the left wing.
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Eh the left wing encompasses more pure Anarchy which is a socialist idea. That's why we need to change the scale and put our right wing and left wing on the same side where they belong, as authoritarian regimes
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

TheLastIndependent said:
Eh the left wing encompasses more pure Anarchy which is a socialist idea. That's why we need to change the scale and put our right wing and left wing on the same side where they belong, as authoritarian regimes
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Dare to dream. They will never be on the same side as the people aren't even on the same side. One only has to read this board to see how divided the people are.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tres borrachos said:
Dare to dream. They will never be on the same side as the people aren't even on the same side. One only has to read this board to see how divided the people are.
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Well they are in the long run. Little disagreements do not change the difference between authoritarian/liberty.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Kobie said:
Oh for ****'s sake.

I'm not a huge fan of the militarization of every law enforcement operation out there, but even you can see the extenuating circumstances here. They brought heat because they were (correctly) expecting heat in return.
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Wonder if your response would have been the same if federal reaction force were to have been brought down on OWS at Zucatti park?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Grant said:
There are no "extenuating circumstances". The federal government should not be sending in troops and SWAT Teams against American citizens.

It's a mystery how Leftists can be against the US Military attacking a genocidal dictator like Saddam Hussein but be for the US Military attacking a Nevadan rancher. They seem to be quite stupid.
Click to expand...

Then this means that I can commit any crime I want and if I have enough guns, I can get away with it because the government can't also arm themselves? What's a better solution to dealing with an armed militia preventing a law enforcement action then? If you think Bundy is right, then consider this as a hypothetical.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tacomancer said:
Then this means that I can commit any crime I want and if I have enough guns, I can get away with it because the government can't also arm themselves? What's a better solution to dealing with an armed militia preventing a law enforcement action then? If you think Bundy is right, then consider this as a hypothetical.
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Nonsense. No one said that....What it means is that if that sort of force is to be used against Americans there had better be a better reason that some stupid turtle, and the pretext of "grazing fees" when the guy had been on that land for longer than the regulatory agency sent to intimidate, and extort from him....
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

j-mac said:
Wonder if your response would have been the same if federal reaction force were to have been brought down on OWS at Zucatti park?
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Where did OWS graze cattle illegally? Where did OWS show up with rifles to show police they were not afraid of them? When did OWS state they were going to resist law enforcement and call in armed militia to defend their position?

See, oranges to apples comparisons. But that's what Bundy supporters do, take it to the N'th degree, hyperbole.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

j-mac said:
Nonsense. No one said that....What it means is that if that sort of force is to be used against Americans there had better be a better reason that some stupid turtle, and the pretext of "grazing fees" when the guy had been on that land for longer than the regulatory agency sent to intimidate, and extort from him....
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So its ok to commit a small crime and avoid paying a fine if you have a large enough gang?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

j-mac said:
Ok, so you only here to look for like minded response....Next!
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No, I am looking for someone to answer the hypothetical, you did not do that.

I will ask another question to get to the heart of the matter and ask it in a way that has nothing to do with the Bundy situation but is a philosophical question about law and order.

If I commit a small crime, like a hit and run where nobody was injured from the accident and the detectives figure out it was me. When they go to serve papers, they find an armed gang preventing the law enforcement action. In order to do their duty, they find that they have to break a potential stand off. Should I be allowed to get away with my crime because I brought guns to the table?
 
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