• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The US is an oligarchy, study concludes[W:192]

Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
It is a real shame that many foreigners are much better informed about US history and politics than most Americans. Case in point.
Click to expand...

Obviously you reflect exactly what I stated.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
That is an electorate that has been brainwashed by billions of $ of propaganda from the Koch brothers, Roger Ailes and the oligarchs who persuaded working people to vote against their own interests.



Government is shrinking along with the middle class, while the filthy rich become still richer. We are in a new gilded age not because of government, but because government has failed to do its job. Financial deregulation, corporate lobbyists and dismantling of campaign finance laws is what got in the mess we are in now. We are not going to fix the problem unless we are able to get control of government back from the corporations.
Click to expand...

The current and projected federal budgets show you to be exactly incorrect.

Increased government intrusion into American's lives also show your uneducated assumptions to be completely incorrect, also.

So sorry for your lack of supportive logic.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

MildSteel said:
Just to make sure I understand, you are saying that government should not protect private property rights. Correct?
Click to expand...

If you consider punishing people who violate private property rights yes but ultimately that is not protection it is retaliation. They cannot protect it only the private owner can.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
That is an electorate that has been brainwashed by billions of $ of propaganda from the Koch brothers, Roger Ailes and the oligarchs who persuaded working people to vote against their own interests.



Government is shrinking along with the middle class, while the filthy rich become still richer. We are in a new gilded age not because of government, but because government has failed to do its job. Financial deregulation, corporate lobbyists and dismantling of campaign finance laws is what got in the mess we are in now. We are not going to fix the problem unless we are able to get control of government back from the corporations.
Click to expand...

Government is not shrinking. It is growing by leaps and bounds, ever more intrusive, constantly assuming more and more power, ever more expensive to operate, demanding more and more of our resources just to feed its enormous appetite.

And what got us into this mess was we the people allowing government to be populated with a permanent political class that exists only to feed itself--to acquire more power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. It throws we the people just enough bones to keep us quiet and otherwise does any darn thing it wants to do.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

AlbqOwl said:
Government is not shrinking. It is growing by leaps and bounds, ever more intrusive, constantly assuming more and more power, ever more expensive to operate, demanding more and more of our resources just to feed its enormous appetite.

And what got us into this mess was we the people allowing government to be populated with a permanent political class that exists only to feed itself--to acquire more power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth. It throws we the people just enough bones to keep us quiet and otherwise does any darn thing it wants to do.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear!!
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Taxation without representation. Ill never pay tax until there is a way to unsure none of it ends up in war's hands. :D idgaf
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

That may not work out so well dirtpoorcris
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
That is an electorate that has been brainwashed by billions of $ of propaganda from the Koch brothers, Roger Ailes and the oligarchs who persuaded working people to vote against their own interests.
Click to expand...
I doubt that the Koch brothers or Roger Ailes supported Barrack Obama.
Government is shrinking along with the middle class, while the filthy rich become still richer. We are in a new gilded age not because of government, but because government has failed to do its job. Financial deregulation, corporate lobbyists and dismantling of campaign finance laws is what got in the mess we are in now. We are not going to fix the problem unless we are able to get control of government back from the corporations.
Click to expand...
Politicians and the bureaucracy get ever stronger and to expect government 'to do its job' is foolhardy. The politicians job is to get relected and the job of the bureaucracy is to protect that bureaucracy. And it's the middle class who generally pays for all of this.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
It is a real shame that many foreigners are much better informed about US history and politics than most Americans. Case in point.
Click to expand...
Most foreigners feel they know everything there is to know about America. They get it from TV, the movies, and the commercials.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

SMTA said:
Four minutes Googling does not an expert make.
Click to expand...

So you deny that state legislatures have done this and worse? LOL talk about being ignorant of what happens in your own backyard...
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

PeteEU said:
So you deny that state legislatures have done this and worse? LOL talk about being ignorant of what happens in your own backyard...
Click to expand...

Never said that at all - that is a lie.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

AlbqOwl said:
Merge bribery, coercion, threats, and fear along with a liberal dose of deliberate misinformation, mischaracterizations, and downright lies into the decision making process, and 'choice' becomes a very nebulous if not predictable commodity. The electorate is so dumbed down and so manipulated at this point, choice has almost become a myth.
Click to expand...

Dumbed down by choice. Which means fundamentally we are not a oligarchy. Someone has to actually walk into a booth and vote. No corporation forces them to.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Grant said:
Politicians and the bureaucracy get ever stronger and to expect government 'to do its job' is foolhardy. The politicians job is to get relected and the job of the bureaucracy is to protect that bureaucracy. And it's the middle class who generally pays for all of this.
Click to expand...

Of course this is just complete nonsense. There are millions of civil servants who are working to give you safe water, healthy food, fight diseases, prevent floods, deliver the mail, fighting crime and provide thousand of other valuable services. If you want to live in a place where there is no government service, spend a few months in parts of Africa where government has effectively collapsed. I think you'll then appeciate the benefits of government services.

And not everyone has been brainwashed by the Koch brothers and Fox news, but the number of working and middle class people who vote for policies that further enrich the rich and powerful is astonishing. The inheritance tax is a good example - many poor people will vote to eliminate the inheritance tax which only affects a very small number of very rich people.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

really? well if people would bother to read the founders, they will tell you this.

our government started out as a republican form, then it moved towards a democratic form with the 17th amendment, now that democratic form has moved to towards rule by a few, and it will turn towards rule of 1 in time.


"when the people become uneducated, and don't know what kind of government they have, it will turn into a democracy, followed by oligarchy then dictatorship"

all of you democratic forms of government advocates are getting the evil you wanted so badly.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Grant said:
I doubt that the Koch brothers or Roger Ailes supported Barrack Obama.
Politicians and the bureaucracy get ever stronger and to expect government 'to do its job' is foolhardy. The politicians job is to get relected and the job of the bureaucracy is to protect that bureaucracy. And it's the middle class who generally pays for all of this.
Click to expand...

No, but Wall Street certainly supports him. They were a significant contributor to at least his first campaign. The denizens of Wall Street have a marked presence in his administration.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Grant said:
Most foreigners feel they know everything there is to know about America. They get it from TV, the movies, and the commercials.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are projecting. That's where most Americans get there information about America. I'm curious how many foreigners you know, and how you assessed the way they get their information. I've known many who have lived and studied here, and they tend to be extremely well educated and very smart people. It can be valuable to get the perspective of a fresh set of eyes, from someone who views the culture as an outsider. That does not mean they are always correct, but you might learn something by understanding their perspective.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Soupnazi630 said:
If you consider punishing people who violate private property rights yes but ultimately that is not protection it is retaliation. They cannot protect it only the private owner can.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that such punishment is merely for the sake of giving the victim the satisfaction of revenge.

So if an armed gang of 100 people overpower a property owner and take his property, the government has no responsibility to intervene to protect the person's property?
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

This may be truth.

But if so, I think it's only because we let it happen.

"We" as in "we the people".

We COULD pay more attention and refuse to elect someone who has even a hint of oligarchical influence.

But we won't.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
Sounds like you are projecting. That's where most Americans get there information about America. I'm curious how many foreigners you know, and how you assessed the way they get their information. I've known many who have lived and studied here, and they tend to be extremely well educated and very smart people. It can be valuable to get the perspective of a fresh set of eyes, from someone who views the culture as an outsider. That does not mean they are always correct, but you might learn something by understanding their perspective.
Click to expand...

I live outside of America and have had many years of foreign 'perspective'.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

GailT said:
Of course this is just complete nonsense. There are millions of civil servants who are working to give you safe water, healthy food, fight diseases, prevent floods, deliver the mail, fighting crime and provide thousand of other valuable services.
Click to expand...

And you feel none of this could be done without bureaucracies?
If you want to live in a place where there is no government service, spend a few months in parts of Africa where government has effectively collapsed. I think you'll then appeciate the benefits of government services.
Click to expand...
Odd that you should point out Africa as an example, where government is internationally infamous for its corruption and brutality. This should tell you something about too powerful governments.

And not everyone has been brainwashed by the Koch brothers and Fox news
Click to expand...
What juvenile silliness.

but the number of working and middle class people who vote for policies that further enrich the rich and powerful is astonishing.
Click to expand...
The Democrats insist on voting for lawyers and crony capitalism, as we have seen in the case of Barrack Obama. That is ignorance writ large.
The inheritance tax is a good example - many poor people will vote to eliminate the inheritance tax which only affects a very small number of very rich people.
Click to expand...
Eliminate the rich and who will pay for your food stamps?
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Henry David said:
No, but Wall Street certainly supports him. They were a significant contributor to at least his first campaign. The denizens of Wall Street have a marked presence in his administration.
Click to expand...

Wall Street did very well with Barrack Obama and his bail outs, his connections with GE, Solar Energy companies, the 'stimulus', and the trillions of dollars which just 'disappeared' during his watch.
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

MildSteel said:
So you are saying that such punishment is merely for the sake of giving the victim the satisfaction of revenge.

So if an armed gang of 100 people overpower a property owner and take his property, the government has no responsibility to intervene to protect the person's property?[/QU

In your scenario they have already stolen that persons property which clearly shows the government failed to protect it as they always do. Picking up the pieces after the fact is not protecting anything.
Click to expand...
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

So if the U.S. is an oligarchy and not a democracy, how could bombing and invading a foreign country on the pretext of spreading democracy be justified?
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

24107 said:
So if the U.S. is an oligarchy and not a democracy, how could bombing and invading a foreign country on the pretext of spreading democracy be justified?
Click to expand...

By lying about it spreading democracy perhaps?
 
Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

Somerville said:
How anyone could call Barack Obama a "socialist" or a "committed Marxist" is simply beyond reason when one looks at the real world



2012 Democracy Index places the US in 21st place

But according to five justices on the Supreme Court bench, there is no political corruption no matter how much money is being spent to influence Congress
Click to expand...

I saw this thread in another thread on this site and replied to it so I'll paste it here.

Oligarchy... Plutocracy...

In an age where the five "conservatives" on the supreme court has told us that money isn't property but is in fact speech, and that coporations are people... Oligarchy and plutocracy are just the polite way of saying fascism... hidden under the guise of elections.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

"Corporations Are People, My Friend" - Mitt Romney​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom