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Thread: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes[W:192]

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The article states, .Obamacare would be an example of that, as well as bailouts of corporations. The majority of the public was against all of this but it didn't matter.

    The rich will get richer and the poor will get food stamps, but these are the policies the electorate appeared to want. And of course the middle class will shrink as government grows, so all of this was quite predictable. As the people complain about this 'oligarchy' they will demand that the government should do something about it!
    If the rich have their way, the poor not only will no longer get food stamps, they may not even be able to feed themselves when working a 40 hr job. Of course the middle class has shrunk as union jobs have disappeared and the economic philosophy of the "free market" since 1980 has created the most unequal society in American history. Not sure why an increasing government would shrink the middle class as we are constantly told about how much money those government slackers receive for doing nothing. Then there is the ever so small matter that government jobs numbers have decreased during the past five years.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean.McDonnell View Post
    Then why is it that proud socialists, those who identify with the socialist party don't view obama as one of their own. It's only his opponents who group him into that party.
    Because most self proclaimed socialist are incredibly stupid to start with and most of them use a very narrow definition of socialism. If you stick around long enough, you will see them declare other socialist are not socialist because they support a slightly different form of stupidity. But unlike most of the Liberals and Progressives, at least they are not afraid to admit their beliefs are socialism.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Because most self proclaimed socialist are incredibly stupid to start with and most of them use a very narrow definition of socialism. If you stick around long enough, you will see them declare other socialist are not socialist because they support a slightly different form of stupidity. But unlike most of the Liberals and Progressives, at least they are not afraid to admit their beliefs are socialism.
    I don't know, I think the real issue here is that Republican's use "Socialism" as a scare tactic to get people riled up. Obama is not even the most liberal president we've had.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.- Plato

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean.McDonnell View Post
    Then why is it that proud socialists, those who identify with the socialist party don't view obama as one of their own. It's only his opponents who group him into that party.
    Because he doesn't support or promote socialist ideas. He promotes pretty moderate ideas. That's why we have a healthcare exchange instead of a national single-payer program. The right wing wants to call him a socialist in an attempt to discredit even his moderate views and swing the country towards extreme right wing policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    If the rich have their way, the poor not only will no longer get food stamps, they may not even be able to feed themselves when working a 40 hr job. Of course the middle class has shrunk as union jobs have disappeared and the economic philosophy of the "free market" since 1980 has created the most unequal society in American history. Not sure why an increasing government would shrink the middle class as we are constantly told about how much money those government slackers receive for doing nothing. Then there is the ever so small matter that government jobs numbers have decreased during the past five years.
    A 40 hour job on minimum wage is already not enough to feed oneself. Or rather, it isn't enough to pay one's rent.
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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    who are the oligarch's?

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    People elect the politicians. The politicians make the decisions. Thus we have a representative democracy. That those politicians CHOOSE to make decisions in part based on power connections does not change the fundamental nature of the political system in the US. Change only requires individuals voting in someone else. An actual oligarchy would have no elections, no judicial system, no checks and balances.

    So this is just more blame avoidance.
    Isn't congress supposed to be the voice of the people? Vote FOR the people? So when you elect someone and the overwhelming majority of the people say NO, and they vote YES, it is fine and dandy in your eyes? As in the TARP bailout of 2008. People said hell no, but what do they do? Give the banks trillions and don't prosecute a single soul. That there tells me democracy is dead. The republic is dead. Doesn't matter who you elect, D or R. When a majority are on the taken it doesn't matter.

    To think elections are fair and balanced is another joke. Voter ID comes to mind. Congress is just full of bs and most dolts eat it up because they don't do their own research and form their own opinions. Watching TV news isn't doing research either, they lie worse than CONgress. Start reading every day on the problems of this country and you will realize we are deeply F'ed in the A.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    who are the oligarch's?
    The .01% who fund a majority of politcial candidates for "favors". The same people who own 90% of all assets.

    Why do you think since QE started it seems to only increase the stock market to all time highs in an economy where jobs are flat lined and people keep dropping out of the workforce? Could it be that these value destroyers are heavily invested in the markets and pull a LOT of weight in DC?
    Last edited by JRSaindo; 04-18-14 at 08:45 AM.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean.McDonnell View Post
    I don't know, I think the real issue here is that Republican's use "Socialism" as a scare tactic to get people riled up. Obama is not even the most liberal president we've had.
    Do the Repuliwont's call him a socialist? I wasn't aware of that.

    I call him one because so many of his policies are society centric instead of supportive of individual rights, competitive capitalist economics and he wants to redistribute wealth from the earners to the intentionally lazy.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    How anyone could call Barack Obama a "socialist" or a "committed Marxist" is simply beyond reason when one looks at the real world

    2012 Democracy Index places the US in 21st place

    But according to five justices on the Supreme Court bench, there is no political corruption no matter how much money is being spent to influence Congress
    Having read it now, I must say I am not surprised by the results. They correspond to what one would expect from Tullock and Buchanan, Calculus of Consent. What is surprising is the relatively inexactness of measurement exemplified here: "The rather low explanatory power of all three independent variables taken together (with
    an R-squared of just .074 in Model 4) may partly result from the limitations of our proxy
    measures, particularly with respect to economic elites (since our “affluent” proxy is admittedly
    imperfect) and perhaps with respect to interest groups (since only a small fraction of politically
    active groups are included in our measure). Again, the implication of these limitations in our data
    is that interest groups and economic elites actually wield more policy influence than our
    estimates indicate. But it is also possible that there may exist important explanatory factors
    outside the three theoretical traditions addressed in this analysis. Or there may be a great deal of
    idiosyncrasy in policy outputs, or variation across kinds of issues, that would be difficult for any
    general model to capture. With our present data we cannot tell."

    But thank you very much for the article. It had been some time since I had thought about Arrow, Buchanan or Downs for that matter. That was quite stimulating.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSaindo View Post
    Isn't congress supposed to be the voice of the people? Vote FOR the people? So when you elect someone and the overwhelming majority of the people say NO, and they vote YES, it is fine and dandy in your eyes? As in the TARP bailout of 2008. People said hell no, but what do they do? Give the banks trillions and don't prosecute a single soul. That there tells me democracy is dead. The republic is dead. Doesn't matter who you elect, D or R. When a majority are on the taken it doesn't matter.

    To think elections are fair and balanced is another joke. Voter ID comes to mind. Congress is just full of bs and most dolts eat it up because they don't do their own research and form their own opinions. Watching TV news isn't doing research either, they lie worse than CONgress. Start reading every day on the problems of this country and you will realize we are deeply F'ed in the A.
    A great post!

    If there was ever an example of how the congress does not give a damn about what the people think, and conversely, govern as they are told to by Wall Street, it was TARP.

    Obama is not a socialist, he is a fascist authoritarian, and the ACA is a perfect demonstration of that. Not only was it designed and mostly written by the health insurance industry, it commands the citizen to do something that benefits those corporations.

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