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Thread: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes[W:192]

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And those who are attempting to live on it should, what? Stop living? Magically obtain better employment in a horrible recession? Win the lottery? What? What are these desperate people to do while you sit above them and feel superior?
    Many people manage to live on minimum wage but this has always meant as a starting point in working your way up the ladder. If it is a permanent job for some then perhaps they just like it there and have no further ambitions. That's fine too.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Many people manage to live on minimum wage but this has always meant as a starting point in working your way up the ladder. If it is a permanent job for some then perhaps they just like it there and have no further ambitions. That's fine too.
    More faux-superiority. Struggling people who aren't as fortunate as you must be defective in some way. They're not ambitious enough. Right. Of course that's it. Nobody is poor for reasons beyond their own control.

    This is why we cannot make any kind of serious progress in this country. There's large factions that live in a delusion and can't accept the facts of how this country actually is.
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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    More faux-superiority. Struggling people who aren't as fortunate as you must be defective in some way. They're not ambitious enough. Right. Of course that's it. Nobody is poor for reasons beyond their own control.

    This is why we cannot make any kind of serious progress in this country. There's large factions that live in a delusion and can't accept the facts of how this country actually is.
    He didn't say that. What he did say is the truth that many start out at minimum wage as the foot in the door--the training stipend while they learn the ropes of the business and make themselves profitable to the owner. Because I married a person who got transferred a LOT, I had to start over in many a new town. And many MANY times I was willing to accept minimum wage or close to it. I never stayed there more than a few weeks, however, because I was able to make myself profitable to my employer and demonstrate to him that I was somebody he wanted to keep around as long as possible.

    Almost nobody is worth even minimum wage until they learn the ropes and routine of a new job and are able to make themselves profitable for the employer. Why would anybody hire anybody who is going to cost them more than whatever profits that person is able to generate or make possible?

    Make the minimum wage too high and the employer won't take a chance on the unproven, unskilled worker.

    But in an oligarchy, that permanent political class will do everything it has to do to make sure that unproven, unskilled worker doesn't suffer and thereby that worker will have to vote for them lest he lose his benefits. And there is strong incentive from that permanent political class to raise the minimum wage and thereby make a much larger segment of society dependent on that permanent political class and thereby ensure it will exist in perpetuity.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Obama isn't a socialist by definition (not that Obama wouldn't employ the necessary tactics for socialism if he could), however Obama's social and economic policies outcomes mimics the outcome of socialism....
    From the same inconsistent poster who brought you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Obama is a Stalin cloaked in a US flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Yes Obama believes in central control of the economy
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The progressive elite wanted a gay, woman or black president so that said president could push socialist policies
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    - Obama is a socialist -
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    No difference really...

    I would label Obama an authoritarian pseudo-socialist/capitalist fascist...

    Do I believe Obama is a Marxist? yes
    Obama isn't a socialist by definition... he's just a fascist, socialist, Marxist and capitalist - AT THE SAME TIME.
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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Voting third party is no more a choice than voting for Mickey Mouse. The only person who matters is the one who actually wins and people who make protest votes or don't vote at all, they still have to live under the policies of the one who makes it into office.
    I cannot disagree with you, not for one second.

    For me, throwing away my vote on a third party candidate accomplishes 2 things--it formally registers my objection, and it allows me to wake up the next morning with a clear conscience.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I cannot disagree with you, not for one second.

    For me, throwing away my vote on a third party candidate accomplishes 2 things--it formally registers my objection, and it allows me to wake up the next morning with a clear conscience.
    But what is more important? Registering our objection and feeling righteous? Or actually doing something to make a difference? If I think something is important enough, changing it, stopping it, saving it, promoting it, or whatever needs to happen must be the imperative and not just feeling superior that I did something knowing that it would make no difference whatsoever.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But what is more important? Registering our objection and feeling righteous? Or actually doing something to make a difference? If I think something is important enough, changing it, stopping it, saving it, promoting it, or whatever needs to happen must be the imperative and not just feeling superior that I did something knowing that it would make no difference whatsoever.
    What do you suggest I do? Vote for a Repub or a Dem?

    I didn't say I feel superior, I said my conscience was clear. There is a difference you know.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The idea is to make Washington weaker and make the States stronger. We can already see the problems the Feds are creating across the country.
    Why? I don't trust the states any more than I do Washington, in fact, I trust them even less. I trust individual counties, cities and towns even less. When you get down to smaller groups of people with the same mindset, you tend to get more and more abuse.
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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I cannot disagree with you, not for one second.

    For me, throwing away my vote on a third party candidate accomplishes 2 things--it formally registers my objection, and it allows me to wake up the next morning with a clear conscience.
    Then go ahead. Your own party has never gotten to the mythical 5% margin and never will. You'll always live under either Democrat or Republican rule. If that makes you feel good about yourself, knock yourself out.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    What do you suggest I do? Vote for a Repub or a Dem?

    I didn't say I feel superior, I said my conscience was clear. There is a difference you know.
    Yes, technically there is a difference. But when we express to others that we have a clear conscience, the implication is that if they did something different than we did, they shouldn't have a clear conscience and we are superior in that regard. I am no different. When I do what I believe to be the right thing, and go out of my way to announce that I did the right thing, I am stating loud and clear that my motives and intentions are commendable; i.e. superior to those who don't share them. There is no shame in that. It is the American way so to speak.

    (It isn't saying that I am superior, but just that my choice was superior to the opposing choice.)

    Seriously, my personal ideology is that if something does not produce the intended results--in fact if we KNOW or don't CARE whether it produces intended results--then there is no nobility or merit in doing it at all. And certainly it is foolish to do it just to have a 'clear conscience'. If anything it should produce a state of guilt within us, not smugness. And certainly, our ethics should not produce a clear conscience when we do something that we KNOW or don't CARE whether it produces intended results.

    When it comes to our vote, we should all be doing our damndest to discern who the superior candidate will be and get him/her on the ballot. And when it comes time to vote for the best candidate on the ballot, our vote should go to the one who will accomplish the most good, or at least do the least harm and who has a chance to win. So yeah, that sometimes means voting for the Republican or Democrat even though they are far less than what we had hoped for.

    To 'throw away' our vote in protest or to make a statement might indeed give us a feeling of accomplishment but we should not have a clear conscience when we do it because we will have failed to make whatever small difference we could. And to vote for the lesser candidate because of reasons other than what is best for all is to create the kinds of oligarchy that are most destructive to this country.

    There is no shame in trying and failing. The shame comes in not trying at all.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 04-22-14 at 05:47 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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