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Thread: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes[W:192]

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    By lying about it spreading democracy perhaps?
    Ecofart does this all day.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I saw this thread in another thread on this site and replied to it so I'll paste it here.

    Oligarchy... Plutocracy...

    In an age where the five "conservatives" on the supreme court has told us that money isn't property but is in fact speech, and that coporations are people... Oligarchy and plutocracy are just the polite way of saying fascism... hidden under the guise of elections.

    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

    "Corporations Are People, My Friend" - Mitt Romney
    Sure, its fun to quote stuff in order to make sarcastic points, but it doesnt add substance to the debate. And oligarchy is defined by decisions being made by a small number of entities, as with the ruling committee in China. The US is defined by federalism and representation, in which power is distributed to many different entities, and those entities chosen directly by individuals.

    That other entities try to influence those choices does not directly give them power. As usual, this debate is simply about liberals being upset that everyone doesnt agree with them, and that they have to COMPETE for power.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    So if the U.S. is an oligarchy and not a democracy, how could bombing and invading a foreign country on the pretext of spreading democracy be justified?
    It can be justified by a public (if that's what you mean) that is thoroughly indoctrinated and willing to deny historical facts.

    Lip service and propaganda is the steady diet of the American electorate.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Dumbed down by choice. Which means fundamentally we are not a oligarchy. Someone has to actually walk into a booth and vote. No corporation forces them to.
    You completely missed the point I was making though. It is not corporations that are the problem in keeping the oligarchy--and we ARE essentially an oligarchy--in power in Washington. It is the oligarchy itself--something recently labeled 'the permanent political class'--that has managed to use our money to bribe a substantial portion of a dumbed down electorate and/or to put the fear into enough people that they might lose the meager government benefits they are receiving. And with a media who is largely willing to help them and rarely ever significantly challenges them, that creates an electorate that will keep them in power as long as they want to be there.

    Why else would those in Washington, both the left and the right, as well as the media, so demonize anybody or any group who gains any traction in preaching a doctrine that would free us from the oligarchy?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You completely missed the point I was making though. It is not corporations that are the problem in keeping the oligarchy--and we ARE essentially an oligarchy--in power in Washington. It is the oligarchy itself--something recently labeled 'the permanent political class'--that has managed to use our money to bribe a substantial portion of a dumbed down electorate and/or to put the fear into enough people that they might lose the meager government benefits they are receiving. And with a media who is largely willing to help them and rarely ever significantly challenges them, that creates an electorate that will keep them in power as long as they want to be there.

    Why else would those in Washington, both the left and the right, as well as the media, so demonize anybody or any group who gains any traction in preaching a doctrine that would free us from the oligarchy?
    To win elections, of course. Which implies that they have to CONVINCE people of something, which indicates we arent an oligarchy. The chinese communists dont sit around trying to convince people to keep them in power. National policy is entirely controlled by the communist party leaders, and those leaders are chosen by the party elite. The people have only a far removed indirect choice in local congresses, which are basically provides by the party anyway.

    THAT is a oligarchy, and shows how the US isnt.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    It can be justified by a public (if that's what you mean) that is thoroughly indoctrinated and willing to deny historical facts.

    Lip service and propaganda is the steady diet of the American electorate.
    The greatest feat of the Oligarchs is to convince the electorate that they are truly representative of the people when, in fact, they are among the furthest away. The Kennedy family have been the masters of this delusion.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The greatest feat of the Oligarchs is to convince the electorate that they are truly representative of the people when, in fact, they are among the furthest away. The Kennedy family have been the masters of this delusion.
    I'm not sure the Kennedy family could be described that way, but certainly the Bush family could.

    Both families are wealthy, and of course both are made up of humans, but while the former consisted of philanderers and such that the Irish are notorious for, the latter consists for the most part of war criminals and murderers.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    To those of you who fervently believe that the United States is a bonafide Oligarchy I have a question. When were we last a democracy? Have we ever been one?

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    To those of you who fervently believe that the United States is a bonafide Oligarchy I have a question. When were we last a democracy? Have we ever been one?
    An excellent question. It's quite possible the answer is in the negative, as to whether we have ever been one.

    Certainly there have always been wealthy people. That is a natural fact.

    Were we ever a democracy? I'm not certain, but it does seem that there was a time when the middle class fairly well prospered in this country.

    Does a prosperous and large middle class mean that a democracy is present? I'm not certain.

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    Re: The US is an oligarchy, study concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    An excellent question. It's quite possible the answer is in the negative, as to whether we have ever been one.

    Certainly there have always been wealthy people. That is a natural fact.

    Were we ever a democracy? I'm not certain, but it does seem that there was a time when the middle class fairly well prospered in this country.

    Does a prosperous and large middle class mean that a democracy is present? I'm not certain.
    It would surely seem to support democracy, in that it (theoretically) means that at least a portion of the population can afford to spend time thinking about politics.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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