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Thread: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Jeez, I thought it was the people Western Ukraine that were the new Nazis. Guess not.
    No, it's the New Russians being the Old Russians.

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Why would Israel need to get involved? The Sec of State is on the case.
    Well and now that he's brought peace between Israel and the Palestinians, we should be fine. Oh, wait....

    The Onion said it best: http://www.theonion.com/articles/man...ting-to,33149/

    "Man Who Couldn’t Defeat George W. Bush Attempting To Resolve Israel-Palestine Conflict"


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And you missed my point which was and is, it doesn't matter what the actual reason may or may not be given the history and 6 million jews murdered during the holocaust as well as the still present anti-semitism in Europe. Do you understand yet?
    Exactly. Reasons may differ but the consequences remain the same.

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    One can only imagine how you would respond to what you have written if a DEM wrote this.
    Try reading some grown-up stuff from Ockham who is on your conservative lean .
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    On Noo!! Not Scary Kerry!

    That should straighten things out!
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Ok. you're beyond hope.
    You still fail to at least acknowledge... amazing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    I'm done with you. Enjoy your fantasy and ignore reality because that is surely going to lead to understanding and solution to real problems.
    That's swell... off you go then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    It's a blessing that you, and people like you, aren't and will never be of any importance to anything.
    When your opinions are less pedantic and you perhaps can at least acknowledge someone elses opinion as possibly valid, try again. Until then - please put me on "ignore" as I find your superficial superiority posts boring. Toodles!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    The jewish organizations in Ukraine have stated that they are pro-ukraine.
    Ukraine Jewish leaders to Putin: No anti-Semitism, please leave - Israel Jewish Scene, Ynetnews



    Ukraine Jewish leaders criticize Putin in open letter | Jewish Telegraphic Agency

    And many more. So it doesn't matter if a personal jew in eastern ukraine is pro-russian. The people who claim to represent them stated that they're pro-ukrainian and anti-russian.

    I explained this in that post. You start with the most easiest groups to silence and then move to the ones who are harder to find.
    In the first days of the crisis the Chief Rabbi declared for Russia and warned of a 'pogrom' from elements associated with Svoboda and the Right Sector. This was a salient part of Russia's initial media narrative on the crisis. Regardless there hasn't been any evidence of any particular political activity from Jewish communities in Eastern Ukraine and if they are being specifically targeted it begs serious explanation of anti-semitism isn't a motivator.

    The comparison to the Tatars is also a weak one considering the well known vociferous opposition to the Crimean annexation that permeated the Tatar community, it's political organs, and leadership. Not that it justifies any retaliation against them.

    Chief Rabbi of Ukraine Urged Jews to Flee Kiev After Attack on Students | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    On Noo!! Not Scary Kerry!

    That should straighten things out!
    Damn skippy...

    kerry_bunnysuit.jpg

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    In the first days of the crisis the Chief Rabbi declared for Russia and warned of a 'pogrom' from elements associated with Svoboda and the Right Sector. This was a salient part of Russia's initial media narrative on the crisis. Regardless there hasn't been any evidence of any particular political activity from Jewish communities in Eastern Ukraine and if they are being specifically targeted it begs serious explanation of anti-semitism isn't a motivator.

    The comparison to the Tatars is also a weak one considering the well known vociferous opposition to the Crimean annexation that permeated the Tatar community, it's political organs, and leadership. Not that it justifies any retaliation against them.

    Chief Rabbi of Ukraine Urged Jews to Flee Kiev After Attack on Students | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com
    I'm sorry your views aren't valid, only Rainmain05 understands and has a valid point of view. Better try next time. [/sarcasm]
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Are you ****ing kidding me?!?


    Fallen.
    There is the difference that a lot of people here don't understand.

    The anti-semites like some of the people in the Right Sector are actually anti-semites and they do occasional attacks on jews. It's violence for the sake of violence and it exists. But it's not with an end goal in mind. It's violence of the sake of violence due to hate or whatever.

    But in eastern ukraine, now, with the leaflets and everything, it's not about anti-semitism, it's about censorship. the pro-russian separatists are trying to shut people up who have dissenting voices and jewish groups have been pro-ukrainian. It's about censorship, as i said repeatedly.

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    Re: Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    My personal analysis is the only correct one that one can draw from the news you and others posted.

    Look. Let me try and explain this in the easiest fashion possible.

    A word to describe strong sentiments against tartars would be anti-tartarism. Yes? Now if someone were to come with a news saying "anti-tartarist sentiments are on the rise in Crimea", you'd probably shrug your shoulders and say "Well, someone should do something about that because discrimination is bad". But if a news piece comes with the text "anti-semitic sentiments are on the rise in eastern ukraine", you reaction, conditioned by a number of factors would be "OMG, HOLOCAUST, HOLOCAUST, DO SOMETHING IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN". And that sort of response can be a justified one at times. However. This is not one of those times.

    This is one of those times when automatism is bad because it prevents you from understanding the reality of the situation.

    If I was in charge of getting rid of dissent in an area, what I'd do is that i'd start with the easiest targets to intimidate that may be the most likely people to cause trouble. And I look around in eastern ukraine and I see a handful of tartars... ok, lets send some people to make sure they shut up because they're afraid. And I see some jews and I know that jewish groups for over a month, have actively voiced pro-ukranian sentiments... so I say lets go shut them up too just in case they may be like the other jews. It's not about anti-semitism because i'm not targetting jews for the jewishness, I'm targetting them because they're the most likely candidates for causing dissenting statements. And I can't have that because it must seem that ALL people in eastern ukraine want to go to Russia or be independent or autonomous or something. But not ukranian. And people who voice a different opinion need to be shut up. It's a very simple case of censorship of the masses. And you start with shutting up the easiest people to shut up and work your way to the more stubborn ones or the ones who are harder to find. Like pro-ukranian ukrainians or pro-ukranian russians.

    Everyone who may issue anti-russian sentiments needs to be silenced. there are no special allowances or special measures taken against jews. It just seems that there because people use terms like anti-semitic attacks to automate a response in people. And while it may be beneficial to have people more concerned about what is happening in eastern ukraine and draw attention to the situation, it's doing it by provoking the wrong path. It's putting up the discrimination that jewish people are facing in eastern ukraine as above the discrimination that other people who may/are pro-ukrainian by using a word that has strong connotations. When in fact, it's not about ethnicity, it's about censorship. People who don't fall in line need to shut up and make it seem like all eastern ukraine wants to go to russia.

    It's distorting reality. And if we start distorting reality, how can we possbilty understand what is going on there? We can't. So lets be factual about things and then understand what is happening.



    No, you don't understand. I understand everything completely and I also understanding that automaton responses and distorting reality is not good in the long run. The holocaust has nothing to do with this.

    Read above and try and understand.
    Another reality is that Jews have been, and are, historically discriminated against throughout Europe and the Middle East. Tartars not so much.

    Naturally red flags will go up when Jews rather than Tartars are mentioned.

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