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Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat[W:208]

Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Sean.McDonnell said:
well he's been grazing on land managed by the FBLM and he hasn't paid for 20 years. Where's the legality?
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That's a far cry from "squatting".... And even if he were "squatting", you think it acceptable to send in federal police armed to the teeth? Wouldn't sending in the sheriff to remove the "squatter" take care of the situation? Nah, they sent a force like that to send a message in a heavy handed way....

Now, I will agree that Bundy needs to pay the fees for the rights to have his cattle graze on that land, but, the government needs to stop making **** up when the time comes to collect the monies also...This crap about the desert tortoise, and then sending in what amounts to a para military force, complete with heavy weapons, is why people started rushing to Bundy's aid in the first place...It's a distraction...Are there not more pressing matters that this country should be taking care of?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

mak2 said:
I dont imagine the Feds expected the cowboys to be hiding behind skirts. :shrug: The feds will arrest him and should the others who interfered.
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What a snotty little lie, cooked up, and overblown by progressives that one is....Multiple interviews with people that were there debunked that one....It was one kind of looney ex sheriff that had the idea that was never seriously considered. But leave it to progressives, and you'd think Bundy himself contacted each supporter and ordered it....

You really ought to stop lying.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

mak2 said:
I dont imagine the Feds expected the cowboys to be hiding behind skirts. :shrug: The feds will arrest him and should the others who interfered.
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I don't believe that these guys would be "hiding behind skirts" as you so eloquently put it. That just doesn't make sense.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Kobie said:
This is sheer nonsense.
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Is that your idea of debating the issue? Why is it nonsense? These people don't believe the federal government has the right to tax them for use of public grazing lands. What is your argument that the feds as opposed to the states would have the right to tax these lands?

Maybe you should educate yourself as to why they are upset.

 Livestock grazing represents the earliest use of public lands,
leading our nation’s expansion westward.
 Settlers went west under the expectation that, as was true for
settlers farther east, laws would be established that would give
them private ownership of the lands they settled and used for
grazing. However, that promise of ownership never came true.
Over 50% of western lands are still in federal ownership.
 Without private property rights on the range, the ranchers who
settled there could not exclude others from grazing. Until the
passage of the Taylor Grazing Act in 1934, the range suffered
from overgrazing. While the TGA didn’t give them ownership, it
did give preference to the local ranchers who were settled and
making use of the forage.
 Today, the more than 22,000 “public lands ranchers” (who own
base property but count on public land forage) pay an annual fee,
deal with endless bureaucratic red tape, and are subject to the
whims of the public, most of which lives in far-off urban centers.
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The Cost to Ranchers
Research has shown that many federal land ranchers pay more
for their forage than do private and state lessees, when taking
into account:
 The ownership of water rights (providing water to federal
lands and wildlife with no compensation) and the cost of
maintaining infrastructure.
 The heightened government regulation and resulting
litigation on federal lands.
 Increased predation and other limitations associated with
operating on less productive terrain and abiding by
seasonal use (fractions of a year)
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Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

ChrisL said:
I don't believe that these guys would be "hiding behind skirts" as you so eloquently put it. That just doesn't make sense.
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You're right Chris...It wasn't that way at all...It was one Ex Sheriff out there that was proposing the idea of placing women and their kids out front as they marched to the holding pens for the cattle stolen by the feds operation. No one took it seriously, nor did they consider it for one second...But given the weak stance of those supporting the government using this kind of force on Americans, I wouldn't dismiss their ability to conflate, and outright lie about what goes on....

Their tune was much different during OWS....
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

mak2 said:
I dont imagine the Feds expected the cowboys to be hiding behind skirts. :shrug: The feds will arrest him and should the others who interfered.
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Skirts? Didn't see any, but I saw Americans getting ready to use their 2A rights.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

CRUE CAB said:
Skirts? Didn't see any, but I saw Americans getting ready to use their 2A rights.
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That would have been Waco stupid.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

j-mac said:
You're right Chris...It wasn't that way at all...It was one Ex Sheriff out there that was proposing the idea of placing women and their kids out front as they marched to the holding pens for the cattle stolen by the feds operation. No one took it seriously, nor did they consider it for one second...But given the weak stance of those supporting the government using this kind of force on Americans, I wouldn't dismiss their ability to conflate, and outright lie about what goes on....

Their tune was much different during OWS....
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Yes it was. Some on the left only care about CERTAIN people's rights obviously. They don't understand that the federal government will take advantage of us and take from us at every opportunity.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

mak2 said:
That would have been Waco stupid.
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How was it any different? People stood up for their beliefs. Koresh was a nut, but many call Bundy the same thing. No one was in danger in Waco, yet the G brought in a tank. Then used it.
The government is setting precedents on what they can and cant do. Their problem is they are finding out that "we the people" are better armed than we have ever been.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

mak2 said:
That would have been Waco stupid.
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So, only the government can use deadly force and not be stupid? Is that really what you are headed toward?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

j-mac said:
So, only the government can use deadly force and not be stupid? Is that really what you are headed toward?
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People like him are trying their best to draw comparisons. I say let them.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

j-mac said:
So, only the government can use deadly force and not be stupid? Is that really what you are headed toward?
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It's scary how many Americans are for the feds using force against their fellow Americans over federal taxes that should not have existed in the first place. Let's face it, the feds don't want Americans doing anything to make money unless they get a piece, and if they must use force then they will. They have way overstepped their boundaries and have been doing so for a LONG time now. I'm glad to see citizens started standing up to our bully federal government and their outrageous use of taxes to take OUR hard-earned money.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

ChrisL said:
It's scary how many Americans are for the feds using force against their fellow Americans over federal taxes that should not have existed in the first place. Let's face it, the feds don't want Americans doing anything to make money unless they get a piece, and if they must use force then they will. They have way overstepped their boundaries and have been doing so for a LONG time now. I'm glad to see citizens started standing up to our bully federal government and their outrageous use of taxes to take OUR hard-earned money.
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At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see the ranch attacked by a drone....That's what Harry Reid obviously wants...
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

j-mac said:
At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see the ranch attacked by a drone....That's what Harry Reid obviously wants...
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I think that would make the situation MUCH worse for the feds.

Like you sig BTW. It's so true. :)
 
SheWolf said:
So is modern Russia. What's your point?
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My point is, liberal progressives are so quick to demonize these people as "domestic terrorists". Our country was founded by what England would have considered in today's terms as "domestic terrorists". Duh.
 
Dezaad said:
Ok then, we still want the grazing fees enforced.
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You do? You people don't get on your high horse when Obama's aids collectively owe 800 grand in taxes. Why are you so hyped up over nickel-n-dime grazing fees?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

AJiveMan said:
That's what right wing media & Bundy allege, got any proof from other media sources?

Since you presented ill defenses of Bundy and his armed militia friends, I'm thinking you're about finished now.
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Your indictment of those people was DOA. Lets face it, it didnt cost the tax payers a dime, until the Feds spent 2 million bucks trying to collect an alledged 1 million in grazing fees.
 
apdst said:
You do? You people don't get on your high horse when Obama's aids collectively owe 800 grand in taxes. Why are you so hyped up over nickel-n-dime grazing fees?
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I thought other people owing the government money was off topic. At least, that was what you said when you refused to give any citations for these off topic claims you are making.
 
Dezaad said:
I thought other people owing the government money was off topic. At least, that was what you said when you refused to give any citations for these off topic claims you are making.
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It's not off topic to point out the Leftist hypocrisy. Such examples beg the question: why are you people so up tight over grazing fees, which in government terms amounts to chump change?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

ChrisL said:
It's scary how many Americans are for the feds using force against their fellow Americans over federal taxes that should not have existed in the first place. Let's face it, the feds don't want Americans doing anything to make money unless they get a piece, and if they must use force then they will. They have way overstepped their boundaries and have been doing so for a LONG time now. I'm glad to see citizens started standing up to our bully federal government and their outrageous use of taxes to take OUR hard-earned money.
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It seems there is a lot of selective taxing going on. The Obama Tax Cheats - Kevin Glass

Obama’s favorite CEO gets GE out from paying any US taxes « Hot Air

I doubt Jeffrey Immelt can expect a SWAT Team on his front lawn any time soon.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

ChrisL said:
This problem goes far beyond Obama unfortunately.
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Yes, but Barack Obama was allegedly bringing Hope and Change. That the American electorate got fooled twice by this guy does not speak well for them. The 'they all do it' excuse is wearing thin.
 
apdst said:
It's not off topic to point out the Leftist hypocrisy. Such examples beg the question: why are you people so up tight over grazing fees, which in government terms amounts to chump change?
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But, you haven't pointed out anything. All you have done is make unsubstantiated claims about such hypocrisy and then when asked to back them up, refused to do so with the excuse that providing such backup would be off topic. I am only pointing this out for your edification, because the only person you are fooling is yourself.
 
Dezaad said:
But, you haven't pointed out anything. All you have done is make unsubstantiated claims about such hypocrisy and then when asked to back them up, refused to do so with the excuse that providing such backup would be off topic. I am only pointing this out for your edification, because the only person you are fooling is yourself.
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Run from it all you want, but the facts will never change. I understand, that you're embarrassed by the performance of your beloved administration.
 
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