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Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat[W:208]

Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Just one little problem: The fees were never doubled because of Congressional obstruction. Instead the fees today are lower than they were when Reagan first instituted them. With inflation over 30 years, Bundy would be paying about one third of what he paid to the Reagan and Bush BLM

The buying up of lands for national monuments and such plus the environmental restrictions largely remain in place.

Center for Progressive Reform :: CPR Perspective: The Trade-off Myth of Livestock Grazing on Public Lands
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Can't help but think there's more going on here than a simple case of catching a tax-cheat.

Not even a tax cheat....a fee cheat.

You're right.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

The buying up of lands for national monuments and such plus the environmental restrictions largely remain in place.

Center for Progressive Reform :: CPR Perspective: The Trade-off Myth of Livestock Grazing on Public Lands

So you post a link that supposedly supports Bundy, or at least provides a reason for him to stop paying a land-use fee, I point out that your point is invalid AND you bring in a totally unrelated point - not the way to debate I must say
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Not even a tax cheat....a fee cheat.

You're right.
I still don't understand how turtles come into this. Is this over unpaid fees or what?

And WTF does Harry Reid owning a couple mines somewhere have to do with anything?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

So you post a link that supposedly supports Bundy, or at least provides a reason for him to stop paying a land-use fee, I point out that your point is invalid AND you bring in a totally unrelated point - not the way to debate I must say

I was merely pointing out it wasn't all about grazing fees.

"Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, who announced the fee increases *and* new controls over water rights and the use of public land"
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I still don't understand how turtles come into this. Is this over unpaid fees or what?

And WTF does Harry Reid owning a couple mines somewhere have to do with anything?

The FedGov has restrictions on when cattle can graze due to the presence of the desert tortoise in that area. This supposedly gave them the right to surround the Bundy ranch and take their cattle off the BLM property.

The Reid connection is still up in the air but, his family has been involved in real estate scandals before, one of his former staff was hand selected (by Reid) as the head of the BLM and Reid's son is a lobbyist for solar power companies.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Harry Reid said as much yesterday. "Well, it's not over," Reid told Las Vegas TV station KRNV. "We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over." Reid is willing to start a war over rights to land he wants control over. He nothing but a thud mobster who happens to be the Senate majority leader.

Ahh the CON spin is bizarre, long before Ried or Bundy were in long pants the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT owned that land. Reid doesn't have control over it, the BLM does. Always has had control over it... :doh

Bundy is nothing more than a thief. CONs usually don't like common, petty thieves so this is amazing. Bundy's own cattleman's association doesn't side with him, and they are far from Liberal. But they make an HONEST living running cattle, Bundy does not.

I predict Bundy will sell off many of his cows as he doesn't have the land to run 'em. The Feds can put a lien on those sales and collect their money.

Bundy quit paying the rather small rent on BLM land BEFORE the land was closed to grazing, he is nothing more than a THIEF. Letting this thief get away with a crime sends the wrong message- I hear THAT from CONs all the time...

One last thought as i know the chest thumping 'patriots' love to puff up and declare revolution... Patriotic Revolutions are not started for common thieves... :roll:
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

What it looks like to me, is that demo administrations are putting the supposed endangered species above the ranchers, and repub administrations the opposite....

What gets me is these types of wording....

"Grazing must take its place along side other, often more valuable, uses of the public lands."

and

"the BLM and the Forest Service should systematically consider on which of their lands livestock grazing generates sufficient economic benefits to justify its costs..."

This reminds me of the progressive meme promoted in the early 20th century when George Bernard Shaw famously, or infamously made his appeal that people should have to come before a board, and "justify their existence"..... Sick.

 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

The FedGov has restrictions on when cattle can graze due to the presence of the desert tortoise in that area. This supposedly gave them the right to surround the Bundy ranch and take their cattle off the BLM property. The Reid connection is still up in the air but, his family has been involved in real estate scandals before, one of his former staff was hand selected (by Reid) as the head of the BLM and Reid's son is a lobbyist for solar power companies.

More CON BS. the ban on grazing was back in 1993, Bundy has ILLEGALLY run cattle ever since. Bundy stopped paying the BLM range fee YEARS before that, he is a common thief. No BLM land is going to be turned into a development so the real estate 'scandal' angle is more CON smoke. The Feds own so much land in Nevada there is no need to target one area- which FYI should have NO CATTLE on it since 1993!!!!!! :doh
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

It's clear that the BLM is being run by an idiot.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

More CON BS. the ban on grazing was back in 1993, Bundy has ILLEGALLY run cattle ever since. Bundy stopped paying the BLM range fee YEARS before that, he is a common thief.

Do you have something showing that Bundy stopped paying fees prior to 1993? Or is this just more chance for you to childishly use your "CON" this, and "CON" that stupidity?

No BLM land is going to be turned into a development so the real estate 'scandal' angle is more CON smoke.

The solar company angle was indeed wrong...But that doesn't mean that there isn't some other use they want it for....Maybe it should be investigated.

The Feds own so much land in Nevada there is no need to target one area- which FYI should have NO CATTLE on it since 1993!!!!!!

You mean no cattle unless they pay a fee right? Because that is what this is all about....So they say....Just another progressive government shakedown.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

More CON BS. the ban on grazing was back in 1993, Bundy has ILLEGALLY run cattle ever since. Bundy stopped paying the BLM range fee YEARS before that, he is a common thief. No BLM land is going to be turned into a development so the real estate 'scandal' angle is more CON smoke. The Feds own so much land in Nevada there is no need to target one area- which FYI should have NO CATTLE on it since 1993!!!!!! :doh

The problem appears to be that the Bureau of Land Mismanagement has waited over twenty years to take action. Perhaps Bundy wishes to have the "dreamy" enforcement (or lack thereof) continue. ;)
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

The FedGov has restrictions on when cattle can graze due to the presence of the desert tortoise in that area. This supposedly gave them the right to surround the Bundy ranch and take their cattle off the BLM property.

The Reid connection is still up in the air but, his family has been involved in real estate scandals before, one of his former staff was hand selected (by Reid) as the head of the BLM and Reid's son is a lobbyist for solar power companies.
So this rancher broke some grazing rules and as a result got some cattle taken, refused to pay some fees, the sherrif came to collect, some protesters show up, cops back down, media calls protesters a militia.

So wtf...pay the damn fees and comply with the grazing rules, or keep your cattle on your own land.

...and Harry Reid is a piece of **** regardless.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I have a master plan Peg.

bundy.jpg
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

More CON BS. the ban on grazing was back in 1993, Bundy has ILLEGALLY run cattle ever since. Bundy stopped paying the BLM range fee YEARS before that, he is a common thief. No BLM land is going to be turned into a development so the real estate 'scandal' angle is more CON smoke. The Feds own so much land in Nevada there is no need to target one area- which FYI should have NO CATTLE on it since 1993!!!!!! :doh
And yet...there HAVE been cattle grazing on it for 20+ years. NOW it is an incident? NOW they justify spending as much in recon, personnel, administration, Temporary duty costs, and court costs that are more expensive than what they could collect in grazing fees? (not to mention risking an armed confrontation where law enforcement officials joked about filling coffins).

Look...Bundy is no hero and there should be a legal resolution here. But dont you think that an administration that cant pull its own hand out of its collective ass, that cant/wont enforce things like illegal immigration laws and is essentially LOST on every metric looks rather moronic deciding to make THIS their 'stand'? You cant negotiate with the state of Nevada and a ****ing RANCHER...and you think you are going to discuss foreign policy with world leaders?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

So this rancher broke some grazing rules and as a result got some cattle taken, refused to pay some fees, the sherrif came to collect, some protesters show up, cops back down, media calls protesters a militia.

So wtf...pay the damn fees and comply with the grazing rules, or keep your cattle on your own land.

...and Harry Reid is a piece of **** regardless.

Wasn't the sheriff and the fees were up to 1 million dollars.

Here the time line and story from acquaintance of mine who been involved in onerous government policy

JEFFHEAD.COM - THE BUNDY RANCH IN NEVADA & FREEDOM IN AMERCIA
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Wasn't the sheriff and the fees were up to 1 million dollars.

Here the time line and story from acquaintance of mine who been involved in onerous government policy

JEFFHEAD.COM - THE BUNDY RANCH IN NEVADA & FREEDOM IN AMERCIA

So far yes, They say that the fees, and fines are $1 Million...But interestingly enough so is the annual cost of running the Tortoise preserve that they have to close, and kill all the Turtles....Hmmmmm....
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

So far yes, They say that the fees, and fines are $1 Million...But interestingly enough so is the annual cost of running the Tortoise preserve that they have to close, and kill all the Turtles....Hmmmmm....

So far it seems the BLM has spent over $3 million in an unsuccessful effort to get $1 million, a great example of Obamanomics at work. It seems that there might also be charges of cattle rustling.

Cowmageddon: Feds retreat from Nevada ranch standoff, release captive cattle | Human Events

Farmageddon would have worked more neatly but less precisely.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Do you know what the fee is? Its $1.37 a month. I pay for 440 of them and then resell them to cattle farmers at $4.00 a month who are glad to have them. $1.37 a month, and you need it for 18 to 24 months in order to raise and sell a $1300 to $1800 steer. You can't be serious when you think this is an extreme burden on a cattle rancher? Unless of course you are just falling overyourself to hate the government and back Clive who can't pay his obligations like me and everyone else.

That's not how it'as dealt with.

here's the reason he stopped paying....onerous government over-reach

CLINTON DOUBLING FEES FOR GRAZING ON FEDERAL LANDS - NYTimes.com
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Do you know what the fee is? Its $1.37 a month. I pay for 440 of them and then resell them to cattle farmers at $4.00 a month who are glad to have them. $1.37 a month, and you need it for 18 to 24 months in order to raise and sell a $1300 to $1800 steer. You can't be serious when you think this is an extreme burden on a cattle rancher? Unless of course you are just falling overyourself to hate the government and back Clive who can't pay his obligations like me and everyone else.

Oh wow...Is that right? $1.37? Oh my....
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Funny how ENFORCING the LAW is such a battle cry for the right, except when they don't want the law enforced.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Funny how ENFORCING the LAW is such a battle cry for the right, except when they don't want the law enforced.

I'm on the right and I have no problem with the law being enforced here. However, in this case the government could have, should have just gotten a judgement, set a lien on his cattle and his property YEARS AGO. Follow the normal course which is to repossess and sell off to satisfy said lien.

I think they gave him far too much slack for far too long.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I'm pretty far off to the extreme right, not afraid to admit that, and I'm all in favor of Mr. Bundy having to pay his obligations. It does disturb me how many libertarian types (anti government types) have bought into this man's angst. I don't think the government has handled the issue with him well at all - first of all it should have been handled 20.5 years ago.


Funny how ENFORCING the LAW is such a battle cry for the right, except when they don't want the law enforced.
 
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