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Thread: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

  1. #11
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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol I wonder if anything bad has ever happened that wasn't the result of American actions.

    Jesus was killed my time traveling CIA operatives.
    The White House just confirmed that the Director of the CIA was in Ukraine over the weekend.

    BTW, speaking of Jesus, it is said that a disciple, who did not completely understand what he was doing, became responsible for the events that led to the arrest of Jesus.

    Just saying. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The White House just confirmed that the Director of the CIA was in Ukraine over the weekend.

    BTW, speaking of Jesus, it is said that a disciple, who did not completely understand what he was doing, became responsible for the events that led to the arrest of Jesus.

    Just saying. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    ...what?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    ...what?
    Deed, sah, dey ain't nobody hyah 'ceptin' us chickens!

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Deed, sah, dey ain't nobody hyah 'ceptin' us chickens!
    ...great
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Will this be a turning point in the pro-Russian protests in eastern Ukraine. Regardless, the US has opened a can of worms.

    East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades | World news | The Observer
    This isn't good. The ruling rabble in Kiev know that they would lose because of the large proportion of ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is the only way to retain power. It's a pretty risky business.

    http://rt.com/news/ukraine-general--...destroyed-704/
    "
    Kiev authorities launched a military operation against anti-government protesters in the East of the former Soviet republic.

    According to activists, four people were killed and two others injured on Tuesday as troops seized an airfield in the city of Kramatorsk, which had earlier been controlled by protesters.

    A source at Ukraine’s Defense Ministry told Interfax that there were no victims among the military as a result of the operation.

    Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov confirmed that Ukrainian special forces regained control over the facility.

    On Tuesday evening, Krutov, who personally supervised the operation in Kramatorsk, appeared before local residents gathered on the airfield. According to RIA Novosti, the SBU official attempted to explain to them that the military had arrived at the site to protect them from “terrorists.” However, the crowd responded shouting they were “peaceful citizens.” The activists then pushed Krutov several times, but were stopped by special forces troops who fired warning shots into the air. "

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    This isn't good. The ruling rabble in Kiev know that they would lose because of the large proportion of ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is the only way to retain power. It's a pretty risky business.

    http://rt.com/news/ukraine-general--...destroyed-704/
    "
    Kiev authorities launched a military operation against anti-government protesters in the East of the former Soviet republic.

    According to activists, four people were killed and two others injured on Tuesday as troops seized an airfield in the city of Kramatorsk, which had earlier been controlled by protesters.

    A source at Ukraine’s Defense Ministry told Interfax that there were no victims among the military as a result of the operation.

    Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov confirmed that Ukrainian special forces regained control over the facility.

    On Tuesday evening, Krutov, who personally supervised the operation in Kramatorsk, appeared before local residents gathered on the airfield. According to RIA Novosti, the SBU official attempted to explain to them that the military had arrived at the site to protect them from “terrorists.” However, the crowd responded shouting they were “peaceful citizens.” The activists then pushed Krutov several times, but were stopped by special forces troops who fired warning shots into the air. "
    The question is has the US put any pressure on the government not to harm protesters like it did Yanukovych?

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The question is has the US put any pressure on the government not to harm protesters like it did Yanukovych?
    Busy dealing with those friendly Russians Jets who keep buzzing around their ships.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The question is has the US put any pressure on the government not to harm protesters like it did Yanukovych?
    Washington Drives The World To War
    By Paul Craig Roberts

    April 15, 2014 "ICH" - The CIA director was sent to Kiev to launch a military suppression of the Russian separatists in the eastern and southern portions of Ukraine, former Russian territories for the most part that were foolishly attached to the Ukraine in the early years of Soviet rule.

    Washington’s plan to grab Ukraine overlooked that the Russian and Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine were not likely to go along with their insertion into the EU and NATO while submitting to the persecution of Russian speaking peoples. Washington has lost Crimea, from which Washington intended to eject Russia from its Black Sea naval base. Instead of admitting that its plan for grabbing Ukraine has gone amiss, Washington is unable to admit a mistake and, therefore, is pushing the crisis to more dangerous levels.

    If Ukraine dissolves into secession with the former Russian territories reverting to Russia, Washington will be embarrassed that the result of its coup in Kiev was to restore the Russian provinces of Ukraine to Russia. To avoid this embarrassment, Washington is pushing the crisis toward war.

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The CIA director was sent to Kiev to launch a military suppression of the Russian separatists in the eastern and southern portions of Ukraine, former Russian territories for the most part that were foolishly attached to the Ukraine in the early years of Soviet rule.
    Well we know the type of stuff the CIA does when they get involved. Remember this?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/ma...anted=all&_r=0

    How a Single Spy Helped Turn Pakistan Against the United States
    ...............
    But now Davis was sitting in a Lahore police station, having shot two young men who approached his car on a black motorcycle, their guns drawn, at an intersection congested with cars, bicycles and rickshaws. Davis took his semiautomatic Glock pistol and shot through the windshield, shattering the glass and hitting one of the men numerous times. As the other man fled, Davis got out of his car and shot several rounds into his back.
    He radioed the American Consulate for help, and within minutes a Toyota Land Cruiser was in sight, careering in the wrong direction down a one-way street. But the S.U.V. struck and killed a young Pakistani motorcyclist and then drove away. An assortment of bizarre paraphernalia was found, including a black mask, approximately 100 bullets and a piece of cloth bearing an American flag. The camera inside Davis’s car contained photos of Pakistani military installations, taken surreptitiously.
    .......................
    For many senior Pakistani spies, the man sitting in the jail cell represented solid proof of their suspicions that the C.I.A. had sent a vast secret army to Pakistan, men who sowed chaos and violence as part of the covert American war in the country. For the C.I.A., the eventual disclosure of Davis’s role with the agency shed an unflattering light on a post–Sept. 11 reality: that the C.I.A. had farmed out some of its most sensitive jobs to outside contractors — many of them with neither the experience nor the temperament to work in the war zones of the Islamic world.
    .......
    But the most significant factor ensuring that Davis would languish in jail was that the Obama administration had yet to tell Pakistan’s government what the Pakistanis already suspected, and what Raymond Davis’s marksmanship made clear: He wasn’t just another paper-shuffling American diplomat. Davis’s work in Pakistan was much darker, and it involved probing an exposed nerve in the already-hypersensitive relationship between the C.I.A. and Pakistan’s military intelligence service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or I.S.I.
    ................
    We got to see what Obama was really about here. He flat out lied and said the guy was a diplomat

    After Davis was picked up by the Lahore police, the embassy became a house divided by more than mere geography. Just days before the shootings, the C.I.A. sent a new station chief to Islamabad. Old-school and stubborn, the new chief did not come to Pakistan to be friendly with the I.S.I. Instead, he wanted to recruit more Pakistani agents to work for the C.I.A. under the I.S.I.’s nose, expand electronic surveillance of I.S.I. offices and share little information with Pakistani intelligence officers.

    That hard-nosed attitude inevitably put him at odds with the American ambassador in Islamabad, Cameron Munter. A bookish career diplomat with a Ph.D. in history, Munter had ascended the ranks of the State Department’s bureaucracy and accepted several postings in Iraq before ultimately taking over the American mission in Islamabad, in late 2010. The job was considered one of the State Department’s most important and difficult assignments, and Munter had the burden of following Anne W. Patterson, an aggressive diplomat who, in the three years before Munter arrived, cultivated close ties to officials in the Bush and Obama administrations and won praise from the C.I.A. for her unflinching support for drone strikes in the tribal areas.

    Munter saw some value to the drone program but was skeptical about the long-term benefits. Arriving in Islamabad at a time when relations between the United States and Pakistan were quickly deteriorating, Munter wondered whether the pace of the drone war might be undercutting relations with an important ally for the quick fix of killing midlevel terrorists. He would learn soon enough that his views about the drone program ultimately mattered little. In the Obama administration, when it came to questions about war and peace in Pakistan, it was what the C.I.A. believed that really counted.

    With Davis sitting in prison, Munter argued that it was essential to go immediately to the head of the I.S.I. at the time, Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, to cut a deal. The U.S. would admit that Davis was working for the C.I.A., and Davis would quietly be spirited out of the country, never to return again. But the C.I.A. objected. Davis had been spying on a militant group with extensive ties to the I.S.I., and the C.I.A. didn’t want to own up to it. Top C.I.A. officials worried that appealing for mercy from the I.S.I. might doom Davis. He could be killed in prison before the Obama administration could pressure Islamabad to release him on the grounds that he was a foreign diplomat with immunity from local laws — even those prohibiting murder. On the day of Davis’s arrest, the C.I.A. station chief told Munter that a decision had been made to stonewall the Pakistanis. Don’t cut a deal, he warned, adding, Pakistan is the enemy.

    The strategy meant that American officials, from top to bottom, had to dissemble both in public and in private about what exactly Davis had been doing in the country. On Feb. 15, more than two weeks after the shootings, President Obama offered his first comments about the Davis affair. The matter was simple, Obama said in a news conference: Davis, “our diplomat in Pakistan,” should be immediately released under the “very simple principle” of diplomatic immunity. “If our diplomats are in another country,” said the president, “then they are not subject to that country’s local prosecution.”


    Calling Davis a “diplomat” was, technically, accurate. He had been admitted into Pakistan on a diplomatic passport. But there was a dispute about whether his work in the Lahore Consulate, as opposed to the American Embassy in Islamabad, gave him full diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. And after the shootings in Lahore, the Pakistanis were not exactly receptive to debating the finer points of international law. As they saw it, Davis was an American spy who had not been declared to the I.S.I. and whom C.I.A. officials still would not admit they controlled. General Pasha, the I.S.I. chief, spoke privately by phone and in person with Leon Panetta, then the director of the C.I.A., to get more information about the matter. He suspected that Davis was a C.I.A. employee and suggested to Panetta that the two spy agencies handle the matter quietly. Meeting with Panetta, he posed a direct question.

    Was Davis working for the C.I.A.? Pasha asked. No, he’s not one of ours, Panetta replied. Panetta went on to say that the matter was out of his hands, and that the issue was being handled inside State Department channels. Pasha was furious, and he decided to leave Davis’s fate in the hands of the judges in Lahore. The United States had just lost its chance, he told others, to quickly end the dispute.
    That the C.I.A. director would be overseeing a large clandestine network of American spies in Pakistan and then lie to the I.S.I. director about the extent of America’s secret war in the country showed just how much the relationship had unraveled since the days in 2002, when the I.S.I. teamed with the C.I.A. in Peshawar to hunt for Osama bin Laden in western Pakistan. Where had it gone so wrong?

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    Re: East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Well we know the type of stuff the CIA does when they get involved. Remember this?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/ma...anted=all&_r=0



    We got to see what Obama was really about here. He flat out lied and said the guy was a diplomat
    It was the Pakistani ISI Gen. Mahmoud that was a $50,000 paymaster to Mohammed Atta. I always thought they were behind 9-11. I have never thought of Pakistan as anything but a forced ally. Their alliance is an act and our Intelligence agencies know better.

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