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Social Security, Treasury target taxpayers for their parents’ decades-old debts

jmotivator

jmotivator

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Social Security, Treasury target taxpayers for their parents’ decades-old debts - The Washington Post

"A few weeks ago, with no notice, the U.S. government intercepted Mary Grice’s tax refunds from both the IRS and the state of Maryland. Grice had no idea that Uncle Sam had seized her money until some days later, when she got a letter saying that her refund had gone to satisfy an old debt to the government — a very old debt.

When Grice was 4, back in 1960, her father died, leaving her mother with five children to raise. Until the kids turned 18, Sadie Grice got survivor benefits from Social Security to help feed and clothe them.

Now, Social Security claims it overpaid someone in the Grice family — it’s not sure who — in 1977. After 37 years of silence, four years after Sadie Grice died, the government is coming after her daughter. Why the feds chose to take Mary’s money, rather than her surviving siblings’, is a mystery."

I have a sneaking suspicion that this will cost the Government far more in legal fees then they actually collected....
 
Reason 633 why it's best to owe the IRS a few bucks, rather then get a refund. ;)

If I were her, I'd be asking for solid proof of the debt, and why she was targeted for this. Meanwhile, interest accrues.
 
I'm OK with the Feds targeting waste, fraud and abuse, but why not audit a couple of bloated defense contracts. They'd collect more and not harass a bunch of folks who never knowingly did a thing wrong. It's pretty stunning how stupid and tone deaf this is, asking families decades later to pay for the mistakes of someone in government.
 
Aside from the amount of time that passed, this is the doozy: "it’s not sure who".
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Aside from the amount of time that passed, this is the doozy: "it’s not sure who".
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Exactly. The fact that the government is trying to bill someone on incomplete information is just asking to be sued. What can they offer in discovery other than an "I have no idea"?
 
jmotivator said:
Exactly. The fact that the government is trying to bill someone on incomplete information is just asking to be sued. What can they offer in discovery other than an "I have no idea"?
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And it's a bit scary that, without any notice or discussion, they can just grab her refund without even enough information to say who they overpaid. I sure hope my parents didn't get an extra dollar somewhere a few decades ago.
 
Blame this on the "austerians," the politicians and their flunkies who constantly are demanding spending cuts and lean budgets. If the government had the staff and resources to dig-out the details of over-payments, they wouldn't have to just pick someone almost at random to pay the debt.
 
Joe Steel said:
Blame this on the "austerians," the politicians and their flunkies who constantly are demanding spending cuts and lean budgets. If the government had the staff and resources to dig-out the details of over-payments, they wouldn't have to just pick someone almost at random to pay the debt.
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Well done. I needed a laugh today.
 
Joe Steel said:
Blame this on the "austerians," the politicians and their flunkies who constantly are demanding spending cuts and lean budgets. If the government had the staff and resources to dig-out the details of over-payments, they wouldn't have to just pick someone almost at random to pay the debt.
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How about blaming it on an inept overzealous government flunky, where the blame belongs?

It has nothing to do with spending cuts or lean budgets. Our budget still has another 20 or so pounds to shed before it gets out of the obese division.
 
GottaGo said:
How about blaming it on an inept overzealous government flunky, where the blame belongs?

It has nothing to do with spending cuts or lean budgets. Our budget still has another 20 or so pounds to shed before it gets out of the obese division.
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Cmon, you really think he was serious? Like the spending cuts were just so big that they can spend x amount of hours to determine someone was over paid, but can't take the extra few minutes to determine who was overpaid? No one could really believe that, right? Obviously the "who was overpaid" is lost to time. He knows that, which is why he was being funny.
 
buck said:
Cmon, you really think he was serious? Like the spending cuts were just so big that they can spend x amount of hours to determine someone was over paid, but can't take the extra few minutes to determine who was overpaid? No one could really believe that, right? Obviously the "who was overpaid" is lost to time. He knows that, which is why he was being funny.
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Actually, I did think he was serious. I've seen some really loose screws on this board......
 
GottaGo said:
Actually, I did think he was serious. I've seen some really loose screws on this board......
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Yeah, you're probably right. I guess it takes all kinds...
 
GottaGo said:
How about blaming it on an inept overzealous government flunky, where the blame belongs?
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This whole problem is easy to understand and easy to fix -- keep good records. If the government had the resources, that would be no problem.
 
Joe Steel said:
Blame this on the "austerians," the politicians and their flunkies who constantly are demanding spending cuts and lean budgets. If the government had the staff and resources to dig-out the details of over-payments, they wouldn't have to just pick someone almost at random to pay the debt.
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I suppose that the other option would be for the government to just take everything and dole out whatever they feel is appropriate.....right?
 
Joe Steel said:
This whole problem is easy to understand and easy to fix -- keep good records. If the government had the resources, that would be no problem.
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Of course it's easy to fix. It's called Statutes of Limitations.

If the government cannot produce the documentation to verify their claim, they cannot go after anyone for the supposed overpayment. They can seek recompense from the Estate of the received, but once the Estate has been filed and closed, they have no legal method of reclaiming the overpayment.

By enacting a Statute of Limitations, it prevents travesties such as this.
 
Lutherf said:
I suppose that the other option would be for the government to just take everything and dole out whatever they feel is appropriate.....right?
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That's a different subject. While I support high marginal tax rates, the average rate would be nowhere near taking everything.
 
GottaGo said:
Of course it's easy to fix. It's called Statutes of Limitations.

If the government cannot produce the documentation to verify their claim, they cannot go after anyone for the supposed overpayment. They can seek recompense from the Estate of the received, but once the Estate has been filed and closed, they have no legal method of reclaiming the overpayment.

By enacting a Statute of Limitations, it prevents travesties such as this.
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You're right. If that's the law, that's the law; but we wouldn't need to worry about limitations if the government had the resources to keep good records. We'd know immediately what happened and could resolve the issue.
 
Joe Steel said:
You're right. If that's the law, that's the law; but we wouldn't need to worry about limitations if the government had the resources to keep good records. We'd know immediately what happened and could resolve the issue.
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From 1977? Very unlikely that funding was the issue. I work for a large company that has been around a long time. When I first started with the company, one of my jobs was locating old paperwork in our warehouses often in response to a lawsuit. We would find a lot of them, but there were also a lot of them that could never be located no matter how long we looked. Things were done very differently back then...
 
buck said:
From 1977? Very unlikely that funding was the issue. I work for a large company that has been around a long time. When I first started with the company, one of my jobs was locating old paperwork in our warehouses often in response to a lawsuit. We would find a lot of them, but there were also a lot of them that could never be located no matter how long we looked. Things were done very differently back then...
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No one said it would be easy.
 
Joe Steel said:
No one said it would be easy.
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Likely not even possible from way back then, at least in many cases. This was before wide use of computers.

Now, you ask us to locate something, and there will be hardly any problem. It all gets scanned in and saved.
 
Joe Steel said:
You're right. If that's the law, that's the law; but we wouldn't need to worry about limitations if the government had the resources to keep good records. We'd know immediately what happened and could resolve the issue.
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So, because the government made a mistake 30-some-odd years ago, another generation should have to pony up for their mistake? It has nothing to do with 'limitations'.

Just as with any entity, you sign off clear on a 'contract', it's a done deal, you can't go back years later and tell them to make good on it.
 
GottaGo said:
So, because the government made a mistake 30-some-odd years ago, another generation should have to pony up for their mistake? ...
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I don't know that the government made a mistake. The overpayment very well may have been consistent with the know facts at the time. Only later, when more information became available, would the overpayment have been discovered. If the government can make case for overpayment based on the agreed facts, it should present it. Then, possibly, the debtor wouldn't need to produce any records.

As for signing-off, apparently Congress changed their mind. That's why they rescinded the 10 year limit on collections.
 
Joe Steel said:
I don't know that the government made a mistake. The overpayment very well may have been consistent with the know facts at the time. Only later, when more information became available, would the overpayment have been discovered. If the government can make case for overpayment based on the agreed facts, it should present it. Then, possibly, the debtor wouldn't need to produce any records.

As for signing-off, apparently Congress changed their mind. That's why they rescinded the 10 year limit on collections.
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The debtor is DEAD. How can it possibly be legal to go after someone else for the money?
 
The government made a mistake that is clear but did Mary Grice ever attempt herself to fix it. Personally I don't think they should be coming after the daughter but the blame goes both ways. I mean if an cashier gave me more change back then I was suppose to get, my own values should prompt me to return it.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Aside from the amount of time that passed, this is the doozy: "it’s not sure who".
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Yeah, that jumped right out there! :shock: Strange that they were absolutely certain that it was okay to take her refund, though! You can't make this stuff up! :mrgreen:

Greetings, AliHajiSheik. :2wave:
 
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